Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

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Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby plainsofabraham » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:54 am

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Kilarin » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:57 pm

GREAT article. Supports exactly what I <believe> about sex and pair bonding. Thanks for posting the link!
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby blushingwife » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:12 am

Great and very interesting article.
What always rubs me the wrong way when this is discussed is this (emphasis mine):

New research shows that sleeping around now could ruin your chances of having a happy, fulfilling marriage later.


I had friends in college who had been hammered into their heads for so long that if they had sex before marriage, their chances for a happy marriage were ruined, that they lost all hope once they had fallen. Yes, there is forgiveness, but but weren't these young people told that their chances of having a happy marriage were ruined because their stupidity of youth? Why even try to find a husband or wife? And if they so find somebody, they enter that relationship with a sense of doom, that something WILL go wrong.

And then I had friends in college who were absolutely certain that because they were going to marry virgins, they were guranteed a happy and long marriage. I know of TWO people who are going/went through the grinder with serious marital
problems (one of them is divorced because the wife decided she was polyamorous) and were totally puzzled it happened to them because they had remained pure before marriage. I hear they call It the "virginity fairy tale" the belief that purity guarantees you marital bliss.

I am not denying that premarital sex often brings problems that would not be there otherwise. And besides, it is sin which should be flees from like all others.

I just wish they would use less fatalistic language about the consequences of sex before marriage, or that they would make less promises about what virginity will bring your marriage.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Titanium » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:39 am

Just wanted to say TOTAL agreement with you BW. The fatalistic/perfection myth does so much damage amongst Christian circles when it comes to post-marriage happiness/success.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby InGodsGrace » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:44 am

I agree w/the article. There ARE consequences to sin. And pre-marital sex can be ANY post marriage consequences for instance spousal refusal, porn addiction etc etc etc.

Yup, you are forgiven, but consequences, and you will ALWAYS reap what you sow.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby blushingwife » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:51 am

What Titanium and I are trying to say is that to make alarmist statements such "your chance for marital happiness is RUINED" and to promise people they WILL be forever happy if they stay virgin is counter productive and many times, even harmful.
To be honest, I found the judgemental and arrogant attitude by the virgin girls against the girls who had a past, very bad in itself. Regardless of whether the girls with past had repentend or not, the virgins loved to rub onteir face how they would have much happier marriages. And just in case people are wondering, I was virgin too, and found that attitude appaling. Isn't pride sin too?

Anyway, about consequences:
I can see how a person with a promiscuous past may end up refusing because of guilt etc.
Now, that porn addiction is a result of premarit sex, does not make much sense.
Porn addiction is a problem in and of itself, whether the person was a virgin at the wedding or not.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Mr. Rkt » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:41 am

The scientific evidence of bonding, and subsequent damage to the ability to bond, doesn't surprise me. Remember, the report is discussing a physiological phenomenon, one which will affect people differently, and some not at all. It's always best to keep science away from "worldviews," and just discuss the data from a learning standpoint. It doesn't have to mean anything "moral," it is just a study of the human body.

Now, about BW's post -- I totally agree. And it's not just sex. It's hard for young people to understand about sin, because we discuss it so shallowly (generally). In order to understand about sin, absent a deep and thorough conviction by an unusually sensitive young person, one must understand the original relationship of man to God; the nature of the Fall; what that means to us; and develop a feeling and understanding for how totally and passionately God loves us. If one can come to an understanding of that, then he/she will appreciate that sinning is offending Someone who loves us more than we can imagine. Either that matters or it doesn't. And it applies to all sin, not just sex.

For those who do fall and come back to seek forgiveness, our faith and our Scripture tell us that the sin is GONE, absolution is TOTAL, and that the One who does this is the One who makes all things new. If there are consequences beyond that, then they are coming from us, from a lack of faith and devotion, from an unwillingness to believe that we are totally and completely healed, loved, and forgiven; and to go forward in that belief.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby plainsofabraham » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:59 am

blushingwife wrote:To be honest, I found the judgemental and arrogant attitude by the virgin girls against the girls who had a past, very bad in itself. Regardless of whether the girls with past had repentend or not, the virgins loved to rub onteir face how they would have much happier marriages. And just in case people are wondering, I was virgin too, and found that attitude appaling. Isn't pride sin too?
One consideration is that pride is talked about a lot in the bible, however, while preached on, it is not given the air time like immorality. That pride at keeping one's self pure prior to marriage is something that I believe will spill over into the marriage and create its own problems, some of which can be just as bad as any effects of premarital sex.

One thing I considered in this article is that there really is nothing new there; you can find much of the info on the TMB main page. I did get to thinking the study was conducted to prove a previously held view.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Kilarin » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am

blushingwife wrote:I just wish they would use less fatalistic language about the consequences of sex before marriage, or that they would make less promises about what virginity will bring your marriage.

You have a good point. We need to get across BOTH messages, and humans seem to have difficulties with that. We are very bad at risk assessment and always want to swing to one extreme or the other. If smoking increases your risk of cancer, then that must mean that either everyone who smokes gets cancer, or that no one who doesn't smoke ever gets cancer. <sigh>

Fact: Premarital sex increases the difficulty of forming good marital bonds later.
Fact: Something that is more difficult is NOT necessarily impossible.

The message isn't "If you've had premarital sex its all over, and if you are a virgin at marriage its guaranteed to work out great".
The message is: Premarital sex, especially promiscuous premarital sex, makes it more difficult to have a good marriage. So if you aren't doing it, don't start. And if you are doing it, stop the damage now. BUT, just because something is more difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. We worship an amazing God who can overcome problems a lot bigger than this. If you've started off with damage, that doesn't mean give up, it means you may have to work harder at it.

And likewise, starting your marriage as virgins is a distinct advantage. But it's not the complete recipe for marital success. Marriage is about a whole lot more than just sex. And SEX is about a whole lot more than just starting as virgins.

Starting marriage as virgins is like starting a race with your running shoes on. It's a great place to start, it's certainly where everyone should try to start, but its no guarantee that you will run a good race. And likewise, if someone has ruined their running shoes, that doesn't mean they can't run. It doesn't even mean they can't run well. It's an obstacle that will now have to be overcome, but its' well worth overcoming, and we worship an overcoming God.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Leah » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:40 am

Kilarin wrote:And likewise, starting your marriage as virgins is a distinct advantage. But it's not the complete recipe for marital success. Marriage is about a whole lot more than just sex. And SEX is about a whole lot more than just starting as virgins.

Starting marriage as virgins is like starting a race with your running shoes on. It's a great place to start, it's certainly where everyone should try to start, but its no guarantee that you will run a good race. And likewise, if someone has ruined their running shoes, that doesn't mean they can't run. It doesn't even mean they can't run well. It's an obstacle that will now have to be overcome, but its' well worth overcoming, and we worship an overcoming God.


This is a good way to state it. I think we create a problem for ourselves when we try to have the experience without understanding what the experience means or how it changes the relationship. In my observation a lot of couples begin having sex as a way to salvage an already shaky relationship. If the relationship is shaky to begin with, having sex and then getting married is not going to solve anything. The problems don't go away when the couple says, "I do."
Leah

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby mamame » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:29 am

InGodsGrace wrote:
Yup, you are forgiven, but consequences, and you will ALWAYS reap what you sow.


Not me. I am eternally thankful for my Savior who gives me blessings when I deserve punishment.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby luvinher » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:23 pm

If 70% of marriages fail to remain intact for 20 years, then this book does not prove it's point. What is the rate of failure of virgin couples who marry?
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Seekryt » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:08 pm

blushingwife wrote:
I just wish they would use less fatalistic language about the consequences of sex before marriage, or that they would make less promises about what virginity will bring your marriage.


I agree. Certainly, DH and I have had some bonding issues because of porn (and surely a few other factors) but we're deliberately trying to retrain ourselves so that we're bonding now.

I sort of think of it like a parent who has a newborn that they can't access because of medical issues (you know, can't pick up the little one, or feed them, etc for an extended period of time). They can have bonding issues, but it can be fixed.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby mamame » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:22 pm

That fatalistic attitude was damaging for me as well. After I made that first wrong choice, I felt like I was ruined. I figured since I couldn't be pure I might as well give it away freely.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby blushingwife » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:30 pm

mamame wrote:That fatalistic attitude was damaging for me as well. After I made that first wrong choice, I felt like I was ruined. I figured since I couldn't be pure I might as well give it away freely.

I heard that exact same thing from friends.
And I am coming to realize that such ideas have affected and hurt other parts of my life as well: "you messed up, you are damaged. So might as well not even try anymore. Dangerous philosohy, it is!
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Seekryt » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:30 pm

mamame wrote:That fatalistic attitude was damaging for me as well. After I made that first wrong choice, I felt like I was ruined. I figured since I couldn't be pure I might as well give it away freely.


::bh

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby robin » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:43 pm

InGodsGrace wrote:I agree w/the article. There ARE consequences to sin. And pre-marital sex can be ANY post marriage consequences for instance spousal refusal, porn addiction etc etc etc.

Yup, you are forgiven, but consequences, and you will ALWAYS reap what you sow.


You can also be an immature emotionally selfish loser virgin and tank your marriage just as easily as someone who has slept around before marriage yet made a real effort once they committed and made it work.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby luvinher » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:48 pm

robin wrote:You can also be an immature emotionally selfish loser virgin and tank your marriage just as easily as someone who has slept around before marriage yet made a real effort once they committed and made it work.


Just as easily tank? The person who slept around and then committed to BETTER choices may well NOTtank the marriage. But I see your point :) ...a percentage of virgins are definitely going to have to make corrections to their thinking in their marriage to have it not tank.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby MarriedKansas » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:03 pm

While I pretty much agree with the article (personal experience on my part), the article negates how a person's Faith and God's love can change the worst lives into full and satisfying marriages.
My past was imperfect to say the least - you don't need the details, but suffice it to say I made many mistakes in my fist marriage (she died), then when I was a widower. Now I have remarried and I'm living a Faith based life and I am bonded both emotionally and sexually with my new wife.
Do I wish I lived differently before now? Of course I do, but I can't change anything in the past. I'm repented, been forgiven, and my life moves forward.

Blessings,

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Job29Man » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:32 pm

I've known plenty of people who slept around before marriage and have a list of regrets as long as their arm, and yet they have fabulous marriages. And I know so many more who were chaste till marriage and have crummy marriages and marriage beds. I agree with the others who lean on the blood of Jesus to forgive us our sins (which doesn't remove all consequences, I admit), and I believe that faith in God, a strong sense and acceptance of His forgiveness combined with GOODWILL, and Generosity are what make the marriage bed strong and fulfilling.

Also we need to figure out ways to overcome bad teaching and bad examples we received as youths. And that has little to do with chastity.
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