Can it actually be done ??

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tjw
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Can it actually be done ??

Postby tjw » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:08 am

Another thread prompted this question....actually two other threads, and it is the main topic of interest in my own life.

I want to know if there is any hope that my wife will ever like me sexually, or will things simply remain as they are for the rest of my life. I have been seeking to have my wife like me through 45 years of what is tantamount to forced celibacy and I would like to simply know whether the Song of Solomon is a fairy tale, or if it covers only a specific set of married people who existed 3000 years ago, in much the same way King David sang that he was "fearfully and wonderfully made".

Posts say that it is accomplished in arranged marriages where the selection of a partner is not based upon it.
Other posts say that it "isn't relevant" and "isn't important".

Please don't sugar coat it, just tell me yes or no - I'm 64 years old and I don't want to spend one more minute of my life waiting for something that is never going to happen. I've been a sucker for far too long already.

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby SeekingChange » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:15 am

If you look at statistics, I would guess they would say that your wife won't change. But, our God tends to work outside of statistics, so there is always hope.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby poetess » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:20 am

TJW, yes, marriages can have passion, and wives in particular can have passion, as many of us on here will testify.

We don't know you, and we don't know the future, and we don't know your wife. So it is an unanswerable question.

But haven't you been married three times, and faced this in each marriage? By that pattern, it would seem that either you are choosing the same "type" of woman each time or sending off the same "vibes" in each marriage, or somehow it is something else other than a random coincidence.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby Job29Man » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:16 pm

tjw wrote:I have been seeking to have my wife like me through 45 years of what is tantamount to forced celibacy... I'm 64 years old.


"...my wife..." Um, don't you mean "my wives"?

tjw,

You want honesty. OK. Please don't read any snark or ridicule in my post. It is written as I would tell you over if you were my best friend and asking me the same question over beers on a campout. I'd speak with cowboy directness, plainly.

Good marriage beds are very much a reality, but it takes two people who are filled with the Holy Spirit for it to be optimal... people whose basic nature is to give, to be generous, to be correctable, teachable. If you aren't that kind of believer, and if you chose to not insist on those qualities in your spouse before choosing her to be your wife, then by definition you will have a battle on your hands, both with your own nature and with hers.

I've been reading your posts. Here's the vibe I'm picking up, my gut instinct. I think you are a huge part of the problem and not an 'innocent victim.' There's something you do in all your marriages that brings this on yourself. I'm not buying that you are a 3 time victim of deception or bad will. I believe you have this life because you made this life. If your wife was here on TMB, I personally believe that we'd be hearing a whole different story that would have you stuttering and blushing. :oops: :oops:

If you decide to leave this marriage (ETA: And I hope you DON'T), do yourself and womankind a favor and stay single. You aren't the marrying type.

There it is without any sugar-coating, as you asked.

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby seeking perspective » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:45 pm

tjw wrote:I have been seeking to have my wife like me . . .


Perhaps this right here ^^^ is the problem. You are seeking the wrong thing. You should be seeking God.

As for whether there is hope, yes, there is. Hope begins with Jesus. Start there.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
~Psalm 30:11
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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby tjw » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:10 am

Job29Man wrote: You aren't the marrying type.


You are exactly right. I have made gross mistakes by not accepting singlehood as a "proper gift of God". Now comes the time when I must
impart some wisdom into the younger men..... that maybe they do themselves a disservice when they marry..... I am very much like a guy who
is 5' 3" 135 lbs and has a life-dream to become an NFL linebacker.

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:16 am

You know what, I am not the "submissive wife" type. My personality type seems to go against it, yet Christ has worked it out in me. You are married, so you are a marriage type. If you are forever doomed to be stuck in the "flaws" Job says you have, Christ died and was resurrected for nothing. Why let a curse settle upon you, rebuke it in the name of Jesus, and believe God is who He says He is, God can do what He says He can do, and you are who God says you are....and, psst, Job's not God.

You might check out my pink signature line.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

My Story

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:31 am

tjw wrote:I am very much like a guy who
is 5' 3" 135 lbs and has a life-dream to become an NFL linebacker.

Or a David going against Goliath. The secret isn't in who you are, but in Who is with you.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

My Story

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby poetess » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:44 am

tjw wrote:Now comes the time when I must impart some wisdom into the younger men..... that maybe they do themselves a disservice when they marry.....


TJW, understand that this so-called wisdom goes against the Word of God. The Word of God says that God gave marriage because it is not good for man to be alone. The apostle Paul gave a concession that for some people, singleness is better . . . so that they can devote themselves more thoroughly to service for God. Thus, it is perfectly proper for an older man (1) to encourage young men in godly marriage or (2) to encourage young men who seem content for singleness in God's plan (e.g., a man whose life course would seem to put him in lifelong singleness so that he can be a missionary in a dangerous area, or can travel doing missions work without the fear of what that travel might do to a wife who may or may not be able to travel with him). It is not proper to teach them cynicism about God's good gift. I personally think that the Church should be speaking more boldly into the lives of its young people in encouragement of marriage as the norm for most people, but simultaneously about singleness as a good thing to a select group of people (not singleness as "drifting" as not getting around to bother to marry). But no, older men and women ought not to be instructing younger ones in marriage being a "disservice." It is a good gift from God, and ought to be received as such and used as such.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby Job29Man » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:26 am

poetess wrote:Thus, it is perfectly proper for an older man (1) to encourage young men in godly marriage or (2) to encourage young men who seem content for singleness in God's plan ...


Poetess, you should add a third point that is perfectly proper.

(3) to instruct a man (or woman) that IF you DO divorce, then you must remain single, and NOT remarry

Bible
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 1 Corinthians 7:10-11


This is sound, biblical, godly wisdom, and not cynicism.

poetess wrote:It is not proper to teach them cynicism about God's good gift...But no, older men and women ought not to be instructing younger ones in marriage being a "disservice."


I agree. To whose counsel does this response refer?

The strongest defense of God's good gift of marriage is to instruct a person who has a "history" that "enough is enough. Don't keep doing this."

[Edited: deleted a mistaken assumption I made]
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby poetess » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:44 am

This article has some nice pertinent thoughts on this subject: http://www.challies.com/articles/greate ... onsibility

When I reached 40, I felt joy in realizing that I was actually now one of the "older women" whom Paul addresses. Now, in truth I had for years been an "older woman" to some people in my life. But being 40 put me a generation older than teens and young women, and with that an authority and responsibility to speak into their lives. It was a solemn privilege, one to be used with discretion (teaching God's truth and not my own ideas), but a privilege nonetheless.

Job, I agree with your third point. It isn't relevant to the OP since he is not divorced (though his first post does seem to hint he's willing to walk away from his marriage). It seems to me, though, that a person who is willing to walk away from marriage without biblical grounds to do so is unlikely to be bound by the fact that he/she has no biblical authority to remarry. So I'd be inclined to modify it to: (3) While you are single, you are free to choose whom to marry. But choose carefully--you will be living with this person for the rest of your lives! Choose only a person who is biblically allowed to marry and a person who will make a good spouse according to biblical obligations of marriage. When your #3 would come into play, I think, would be when a person says "I just cannot live with this person. I don't know that I have biblical grounds for divorce, but she drives me crazy. Enough is enough! I'm leaving." At that, a pastor can say, "If you insist on divorce, then understand you are leaving not just this marriage, but marriage itself. You are not trading in this spouse for another, not now, not twenty years from now. As a minister of God, I cannot authorize this divorce, nor will I perform a new marriage ceremony sometime in the future." Church discipline might be relevant, as well, depending on the severity of the offense. (Leaving one's spouse to marry or live with another person would merit discipline, for sure.)
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby tjw » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:29 am

I'm not willing to walk away from my marriage. I have never done that. I did walk away from a sinful relationship with a GF.

You are seeking the wrong thing. You should be seeking God.


I am. Through His people. The bible says that "Without counsel purposes are disappointed; but in the multitude of counselors they are established."

do yourself and womankind a favor and stay single. You aren't the marrying type.


I think Job is absolutely right. I am not the type of man who women desire sexually. I'm the type who women desire for security. And, I might have indeed done us both a favor instead, if I had understood from the beginning that I was going to "burn", anyway.

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Re: Can it actually be done ??

Postby poetess » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:26 am

TJW, there is no one "type" of man whom women desire sexually. And most women (in my experience) are far more flexible as to what physical type of man they might marry. (Men who prefer brunettes tend to marry them, for instance. A woman might say her preference is a man with brown hair but that it doesn't really matter, or that she likes tall men or solidly built men, but what he looks like is just not high enough on her list to override other more important factors.)

For a woman, beyond the initial attraction to "I like tall men" or "I prefer well-muscled men" or whatever, it's the man himself and the relationship that is the turn-on or turn-off. (Or her own hormones or her own issues.) A man can get aroused at the sight of a pretty woman. It doesn't work that way for women, not most of the time anyway. Sex is more relationally driven and more responsive. He can be suave or a geek, handsome or homely. But for the normal, healthy, godly woman, his attraction to her and his relationship with her will catch her attention, and his positive characteristics will ring in her the truth that "this guy's a keeper," and romance is built on that, not on what "type" he is. He can be the best possible physical example of her preferred type, but if he isn't the right sort of man in more important ways, that will not matter, because "sex appeal" is not based on a man's looks.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!


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