Feeling like an object

Low or no sex drive?
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Job29Man
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Call in the Pastor

Postby Job29Man » Fri May 13, 2016 8:41 am

Bible
Genesis 2:21-24 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

23 And Adam said:

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


Your husband is in direct violation of the fundamental command of Scripture regarding marriage; "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife..."

Time to take this matter to your pastor and have your husband come explain himself to his spiritual authority, his pastor.

I asked about whether you are nursing because, if you keep nursing, and you separate, you could claim "I can't be separated from this baby because I am her food supply." That could be good for two years or so if you do it right. By then he's moved on.
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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby belovedalways » Fri May 13, 2016 9:41 am

Job, I have to respectfully disagree with your advice to this young wife. We have several situations where a spouse here is in direct disobedience to God but your advice is not for them to walk away. His sin of not cleaving is something to be worked on and encouraged to change, not something to accept and walk away from because he deserves it and because she thinks the sins of his step-father are automatically going to be his as well.

Her dh is also young. He has a young wife that probably isn't acting as Godly as she thinks she is. This is a problem that can be worked on, but she has to do some work as well.

We have a young wife that is in a situation that definitely needs help. She has painted a picture of herself being mature, teachable, Godly, and alone while her husband is totally ungodly, unloving, and unregenerate. In my real world, I have yet to see a marriage in trouble where BOTH spouses didn't contribute to the trouble, although one may have more obvious problems to those looking on. I have serious misgivings that we have a complete picture here and while it may be necessary for this young lady to separate in the future, I think before leaving her spouse, she should listen to some counsel and do something herself. Control herself. Grow herself.

If you read back through her posts, every time she was given counsel that didn't cater to the direction her thinking/writing was going (do I have Biblical reasons to justify me leaving my spouse), she dropped another drama tidbit to bring it back to her and how she feels and what she thinks. She hasn't let us know that she is working on anything in her life, besides being consumed with herself and her (unfound) fears for her child. She doesn't acknowledge the counsel she been given if it isn't what she wants to hear right now. She is not responding wisely. She is not loving her husband, nor is she respecting him which is also in direct disobedience to Scripture. She does not want to have to honor his parents. I really feel she has other things she can and should do before taking your advice.
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Feeling like an object

Postby Hiswifeagain » Fri May 13, 2016 9:50 am

Job29Man wrote:Your husband is in direct violation of the fundamental command of Scripture regarding marriage; "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife..."

Time to take this matter to your pastor and have your husband come explain himself to his spiritual authority, his pastor.

I asked about whether you are nursing because, if you keep nursing, and you separate, you could claim "I can't be separated from this baby because I am her food supply." That could be good for two years or so if you do it right. By then he's moved on.


Job, I generally have a very high opinion of your posts and your theology, so I'm really quite dismayed to see your posts in this thread that seem to be giving LS a pass on fighting for her husband and her family to remain together. You seem to be basing your whole assessment of the situation on one person's perspective. These are people's lives we're dealing with. A man that you only know from what LS has chosen to share.

He isn't in violation of leaving and cleaving because he's unwilling to cut off his family. I don't remember reading anything in the Bible that says once you marry you no longer see or talk to your family. If he was saying that to her we'd all be calling "Foul" because that's what abusers do. They cut you off from your family. We only have Sparrows perspective of everything that's been said. What makes you believe her husband is going to walk away from his wife and daughter because she leaves him? What gives her the right to take his daughter away because she's unhappy with him having contact with his family.

She asked BA, "what about physical abuse?" I find it odd that she's asking that now? If that has been an issue, why hasn't she brought it up before? If it's new onset, why didn't she just say that. This whole line seems like someone with an agenda.

You seem to be pronouncing this man guilty without ever hearing his side. No trial, no evidence. Everything we've heard so far is from his accuser. Perhaps a little nod at innocent until proven guilty should be considered? :roll: I'm not sure if you realize it, but the above bolded statement is advocating manipulation IMO and you are mind-reading what he will do. I am so disappointed with your advice to this young woman. There are enough people in the world telling us to quickly throw away our marriages when we're not happy. I hope she does take this to her pastor. As their spiritual authority, he is likely better suited to advise her than any of us here. He at least knows her husband.

As I was submitting this I see BA posted as well, but I'm going to post this anyway.

ETA: The sentence about the pastor knowing the husband.
Last edited by Hiswifeagain on Fri May 13, 2016 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby SeekingChange » Fri May 13, 2016 10:03 am

Just as another voice, I back BelovedAlways on this. She is sharing observations and truths that I have seen and felt as well.

I hope, Little Sparrow, that you take the words to heart and you seek out your heart before the Lord. No matter the decision you end up making, you will be held accountable for your choices, just like we all will.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby MayDayGirl » Fri May 13, 2016 11:22 am

Maybe Job is offering this advice as a summation of the OP's posts since she joined TMB?

Personally, I think this falls under another active thread right now, started by Job.

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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby Hiswifeagain » Fri May 13, 2016 11:30 am

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it being a summation doesn't seem to change anything. I'm not sure what other thread you're referring to. Care to post a link?


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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby Vanna » Fri May 13, 2016 11:56 am

I think Job may be working from the position of concern that there is legitimate abuse going on? That's how I read it anyway?

I mostly stay off Sparrow's threads since I don't feel the picture painted is clear. The thing is, I've been back over all the threads, from start to finish, and I'm not getting a clear picture of what that abuse was, or currently is?

The most troublesome post was concerning the step dad- but even that grew thinner as the thread progressed, and her responses wobbled.

Little Sparrow- you need to consider something which seems to be a common truth in any situation: broken people attract people with with complimentary brokenness inside. We see it time and again. A passive person will attract a more controlling one. An abuser will attract someone with a propensity for being abused.

If you married this man, and he and his family is as broken on the inside as you say... There is a real question of what inside you and your past led you to make this match?

I watched you on the FIL thread, you worked yourself and others up into your corner, but when faced with fear of opposition from your FIL, you melted.

There are areas inside you that are broken and you need to consider how those are driving your perception and responses in this situation.

I get the impression your husband is a driven man who carries himself with a certain amount of responsibility and authority to have been placed in church leadership at such a young age. (Which I'm not sure was healthy, in terms of pressure and pride.) When pushed into a corner, his default seems to be defensive irritation- and threats. Which actually isn't horribly uncommon, most driven personalities tend to lean toward grasping for control to fix things.

What about you though? What brokenness in you corresponds with this pattern? Do you have a tendency to find yourself in victim positions? Do you tend to be passive aggressive? Is fear a theme that recurs in your life?

You are both broken. Is his slow reversion perhaps caused by the fact that he feels he has truly tried to change, but even that wasn't enough?

Either he really is abusive, and you need to separate (hence Job's post) or he is just a guy with a broken past who needs to get better at communication and leadership, and you need to step back and begin working together on communication and independently on your brokenness (hence beloved's post).

Which is it?? Please don't feel you need to answer here. This is serious- if you want to fix your marriage and you love this man, and he is just a stubborn, frustrated, inexperienced husband and father, you need to step back and start repairing before you can't reverse it. But, If he really is an abuser, you need to get real life, flesh and blood intervention and stop relying on an Internet forum.

Only you really know and there is no shame in stepping back and asking yourself to take a more objective look at your marriage and man so you can move forward.
After 28 years and six kids, through the good and bad, by the grace of God, things keep getting better and better. ::wed

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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby MayDayGirl » Fri May 13, 2016 1:07 pm

Hiswifeagain wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but it being a summation doesn't seem to change anything. I'm not sure what other thread you're referring to. Care to post a link?


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Job29Man
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We ALWAYS only get one side of the story

Postby Job29Man » Sat May 14, 2016 6:11 am

Job29Man wrote:I asked about whether you are nursing because, if you keep nursing, and you separate, you could claim "I can't be separated from this baby because I am her food supply." That could be good for two years or so if you do it right. By then he's moved on.


I have not counseled LS to divorce. I'm not sure where anyone would read that.

Little Sparrow's husband has threatened divorce. He has said that he would rather divorce her than cut off his abusive Stepfather's access to the baby. My gut tells me that if he doesn't change significantly, they won't be together for long. The situation seems fragile. My primary advice is always to try to work on a marriage, and stick it out. But she has described a situation where she genuinely believes there could be a physical safety threat to the baby. She needs to prepare a plan B in case this all blows up. Plan B includes "You (abusive Stepfather) can't keep the baby overnight because I need to breastfeed her."

As to "we only get one side of the story here" ... well... yes, that is almost ALWAYS the case. If you read my advice to Little Sparrow it has in the past included such phrases as "the man you are describing is ABC" or "the situation you describe sounds like XYZ." All we will ever have here is one side of the story. A poster who shades the truth to favor him/herself always runs the risk of getting faulty advice based on his/her half-truths in the OP. We can only assume that the OP tells the truth as best they see it, and then it is THEIR responsibility to be honest with themselves about it, knowing that all advice given here can only be based on their description of the story.

I have read every single post LS has written on TMB, and I have been counseling her since the beginning. I believe she understands my motivation and context very well.

So, shall we pull our punches in our advice here because we "only get one side of the story?" IMHO no. We should put in a few caveats from time to time and then plunge right in with our best judgment. Posters who lie or misrepresent the situation do so at their own peril, knowing that the advice they then get does not have any relevance or value.
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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby beautyfromashes » Sat May 14, 2016 8:30 pm

Little Sparrow, if your church doesn't have anything for women, let me encourage you to find a MOPS group. It's a Christian organization for moms of littles. I found one shortly after I joined here, and I credit MOPS and TMB with saving my marriage and my sanity. New mamas need community.
Deep intimacy always requires work, acceptance, and forgiveness. Lots of it. ~~ Linda Dillow

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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby Barbarah-Hephizibah » Sun May 15, 2016 1:28 pm

little_sparrow wrote:<snip> ... before I responded any further to the rest of what you said, I wanted to know your view on abuse ...

Sounds like wisdom, Little Sparrow. After all, why would one who has been abused want to share their heart with one who minimizes abuse?

Praying that you would hear the guidance of the Lord and take the next step. One step at a time, through HIs grace. ~BH

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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby Hiswifeagain » Sun May 15, 2016 4:08 pm

I hope I'm misunderstanding you BH, but are you suggesting that BA and/or I are minimizing abuse?


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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby BHF » Sun May 15, 2016 10:24 pm

Really hesitated to post this but here it goes.

My mom is abusive. She physically abused me and my brother. The youngest two not so much. But she has "lost it" and beat my sister to a pulp when she was about 20 years old.

When DD1 was born, I had the same fears. I saw my parents about once a month. They still have never babysat for us ever. In fact, I have never left my kids with anyone. I am THAT super-protective mom and it will be going on 4 years soon.

I was acting in such fear. I was constantly afraid that she was going to blow up, (if you are an abused child you will know that deep-seated anxiety that goes along with always making sure everything is perfect, because you are always on edge). One day she almost did. She demanded my time when baby needed me and I said no :shock: She was unsure, I was always the submissive one, quick to obey. I said no, and we had a huge argument with hubby right there holding the baby. I took my baby and went to bed. I was shaking. We were sleeping over at her house. I prayed the whole night. The next morning, it was as if nothing happened and she was embarrassed about her behavior. I set the boundary that my child comes first.

Another time, my sister spoke to me disrespectfully. My mother overheard, and slapped her. And my dad then (very uncharacteristically) smashed a table. At which point my husband said that we are leaving and we left. Boundary set that we won't stick around for physical violence.

That first year we set many, many boundaries with my parents. My daughter will be four soon, and those incidents all occurred within her first year. I realized that she will encounter unhealthy, negative people and I can give her the tools to manage them by actively showing her how to deal with it.

Both my daughters adore their grandmother, as in ADORE. She has mellowed out quite a bit. She is the most patient, cool, funny grandmother there is. She definitely resents that I won't leave them alone with her, but I don't leave them alone with anybody. I am there but she is free to take them for walks by herself or they will play by themselves etc. But she just enjoys her time with them. The other day we were talking and she said one thing she doesn't have is patience. I said, "You have much more patience with your grandkids than you ever did with us." "But that's different, grandchildren are special."

Recently, we had to move and my FIL and SIL is now staying with us. FIL is very sick but is a drunk. In my husband's words "He is not a good person." I lost so much weight in that first month due to stress. He is so drunk that he can't find the toilet at night and then my husband has to help him. Then at 1/2am at night he will pick a fight with him physically and scream and swear and shout. Until the day when my mother rocked up nice and early before he left to go and drink ... It has been about 4 weeks of silence. The man has not even looked at me skew. He has never needed assistance again at night. And all my mother did was threaten him. Sometimes it is good to have people like these as a back pocket Ace.

I think you should let your in-laws see your daughter. Limited access, limited time. It will set up a healthy way for them to interact in the future if you set those boundaries firmly and you do it now.
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Job29Man
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Re: Feeling like an object

Postby Job29Man » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:27 am

Little_sparrow,

We haven't forgotten about you. We continue to pray for you.

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