Sex After The Legal Marriage Okay?

[wild will]

Not to throw gas on the fire but, what about Adam and Eve? I am not stating an opinion here just wondering what everybody thinks.

[Mr. Rkt]

Not to throw gas on the fire but, what about Adam and Eve? I am not stating an opinion here just wondering what everybody thinks.

God married Adam and Eve, and witnessed the wedding. God is Law and Word, so the marriage was both blessed and legal.

[HollyLena]

Did they have a ceremony? Who all was invited to it? Or was it just between God, Adam and Eve?

[wanting2Bwanted]

Did they have a ceremony? Who all was invited to it? Or was it just between God, Adam and Eve?

Who else COULD they invite? Adam and Eve were the only humans around then.

I'm sure the serpent was there......

[HollyLena]

lol

[mamame]

Did they have a ceremony? Who all was invited to it? Or was it just between God, Adam and Eve?

Who else COULD they invite? Adam and Eve were the only humans around then.

I'm sure the serpent was there......

LOL - such a party crasher that one!

[hotdoginabun]

This is in response to everyone talking about whether sex before a legal marriage means that you are married...

I agree, in a sense. But you also have to consider that in the NT both fornication AND adultry were mentioned...so I have to believe that there was such a thing as fornication, which means there was some ceremony! I mean, Joseph and Mary were betrothed (an extremely serious form of engagement) and if they had slept together before it was legal (in whatever way it became legal) they would have been in deep doo-doo! Remember that Joseph was going to "quietly divorce" her?

Just some thoughts...

-Bun

[wild will]

This is in response to everyone talking about whether sex before a legal marriage means that you are married...

I agree, in a sense. But you also have to consider that in the NT both fornication AND adultry were mentioned...so I have to believe that there was such a thing as fornication, which means there was some ceremony! I mean, Joseph and Mary were betrothed (an extremely serious form of engagement) and if they had slept together before it was legal (in whatever way it became legal) they would have been in deep doo-doo! Remember that Joseph was going to "quietly divorce" her?

Just some thoughts...

-Bun

Good point! This is a very interesting discussion. This definitely sways my opinion. But do you think that there was some distrust of Mary on Joseph's part? But he loving her deeply was going to divorce her quietly? And this is why the angel came to him? I know if my future bride came to me and said "Hey....er .... um..... I'm pregnant but it's the messiah." I would have a hard time believing it. Also just some thoughts. I think that the fornication/ adultery argument is the best. Because if sex means your married then fornication doesn't exist. If that's the case then everything like that would be adultery.

[luvmygirls]

Not to throw gas on the fire but, what about Adam and Eve? I am not stating an opinion here just wondering what everybody thinks.

Apples and oranges.


Holly Lena, thanks for the clarification on common law. I know that common law varies from state to state. Not to be argumentative or judgmental, so please don't take it as insulting. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around common law. My OPINION is that a ceremony sets a specific time for the beginning of the union, whether it be a justice of the peace, judge, or pastor. I am in no way failing to acknowledge your common law status (before you ceremony) as legitimate. In my mind it just throws up a whole host of issues. However, the state recognizing it as a legal marriage makes it hard to argue against its legitimacy, even biblically since cultures are so drastically different then/there and now.

Again, no insult intended. This has been a wrestling point for me for many years and my conscience hasn't been cleared definitely either way. Still more to consider.

[landschooner]

In the ABSENCE of a legal requirement, why would there have to be any formal ceremony? The requirement doesn't exist in the bible so I believe it is a human construct. Human constructs are fine and (which is fine) I'm not saying we SHOULD buck to cultural norm. What very much exists is Marriage and the roles and responsibilities and obligations of a husband and a wife. I don't think God cares much HOW we get married but that we ARE committed once we are.

fornication exists for singles who are NOT committed to each other in marriage.

In the absence of a legal requirement:
"Are we married? No. lets have sex. OK." That's fornication

"Are we married? We are as of this moment married. Do you agree? Yes. lets have sex. OK" That's a Wedding Night.
(God will keep you to this marriage with all the rights and responsibilities and obligations)

I believe it was jokerman who pointed out that you can "technically" do something biblically but still sin in how you do it.
It can be perfectly "biblical" to go get married by a justice of the peace, but if your entire family feels betrayed by this and is upset with you for "eloping'", it could be that you were in sin by being selfish. (Maybe the family is being unreasonable, maybe not) But I don't think that there is anything wrong with that type of marriage at all. If you take it seriously as a marriage, then it IS a marriage as there really is no other biblical requirement.

[luvmygirls]

LS, that's what I'm trying to balance in my mind and spirit. To be sure, I haven't spent hours upon hours studying the biblical constructs of what defines marriage in God's eyes, but I also know that each of our opinions is colored by experience, relayed doctrine, and conviction. Do I think the state is the final authority in what constitutes marriage? Absolutely not, but I know that the government is ordained by God to administer order (not to say that our government is orderly or sticks to God's standards; that's an entirely different issue), and we are to submit to that.

I'm not trying to confine anyone to my definition of marriage, but at the same time I don't want to lull anyone into thinking that just because THEY say they are married, that God sits back and says, "Okay then, that's good enough for Me. Carry on." Understand? Until I get a clear answer from the Spirit on EXACTLY where God draws the line, I am only comfortable with a clear time being set for the marriage to begin, which is most universally accepted at a ceremony of some sort.

Again, that's where I am right now, whether accurate or overly cautious or completely deceived. No offense to anyone who feels otherwise. Quite honestly you very well may be right. To quote myself, "If it's okay with Jesus, it's okay with me."

[Leah in Mid-South]

Holly Lena, thanks for the clarification on common law. I know that common law varies from state to state.

Exactly. Tennessee does not recognize common law marriage.

[landschooner]

LS, that's what I'm trying to balance in my mind and spirit. To be sure, I haven't spent hours upon hours studying the biblical constructs of what defines marriage in God's eyes, but I also know that each of our opinions is colored by experience, relayed doctrine, and conviction. Do I think the state is the final authority in what constitutes marriage? Absolutely not, but I know that the government is ordained by God to administer order (not to say that our government is orderly or sticks to God's standards; that's an entirely different issue), and we are to submit to that.

I'm not trying to confine anyone to my definition of marriage, but at the same time I don't want to lull anyone into thinking that just because THEY say they are married, that God sits back and says, "Okay then, that's good enough for Me. Carry on." Understand? Until I get a clear answer from the Spirit on EXACTLY where God draws the line, I am only comfortable with a clear time being set for the marriage to begin, which is most universally accepted at a ceremony of some sort.

Again, that's where I am right now, whether accurate or overly cautious or completely deceived. No offense to anyone who feels otherwise. Quite honestly you very well may be right. To quote myself, "If it's okay with Jesus, it's okay with me."

Oh I don't think we disagree or at least not very much. I fully believe that because there IS a legal definition of marriage, that we need to get legally married. We absolutely need to submit to the authorities that God has placed over us. I believe there IS a clear time that is set for the marriage to begin. I think the ceremony is WISE as it gives you and the community a point of reference to look upon. It's also a wise thing to announce to all that you are both off the market as it were. I also don't think there is any reason to buck convention just to make a point. If its jumping the broom, then "jump the broom". If its diving into a pool together blindfolded, then dive away! If you're two castaways with no hope of rescue, then just say "We do!" Really, I was trying to defend the idea that a legal marriage IS marriage. That there isn't any need to then have a "Christian" ceremony in order to make it biblical. It may be NICE to follow a justice-of-the-peace wedding with a "Church Wedding", but you're not any MORE married because you did it in a church. If you committed to each other in front of a judge, or in front of a preacher or a priest or a ship's captain, you're committed to each other for life because its ALL before God.

[thinkingswiftly]

I'd guess that this is one of those issues that could be relative from person to person based on how the Spirit moves.

This was a major issue in my own life because DW and I wanted to be married earlier and were 1000% committed despite some in-law troubles but moving up the wedding wasn't going to happen as others had their hands in the process wouldn't stand for it and her family would probably have disowned her if she had done a JP ceremony. Life was pretty difficult and confusing especially towards the last half of the engagement because when I looked at DW I didn't see FW, I saw DW instead. Never thought I'd been in a situation where I'd wonder if keeping my hands to myself might have been a sin.

I'd have been happy, and had already come to the same conclusion as LS, but DW wanted to do the ceremony because to her family that was the only way we would have been seen as legitimate.

There are quite a few views that differ from mine, and honestly, I won't be telling my future kids about my conclusions until after they are adults and only if they share my absolute conviction that however you want to define it, it is 100% for life. It is also interesting the broad definition of "Christian ceremony".

Maybe the most important thing is that you follow through on all aspects of the marriage (personal, ceremony, legal) instead of just stopping half way. Maybe not. I guess it is up to God to decide and hopefully forgive those of us who don't get it right.

[luvmygirls]

Oh I don't think we disagree or at least not very much. I fully believe that because there IS a legal definition of marriage, that we need to get legally married. We absolutely need to submit to the authorities that God has placed over us. I believe there IS a clear time that is set for the marriage to begin. I think the ceremony is WISE as it gives you and the community a point of reference to look upon. It's also a wise thing to announce to all that you are both off the market as it were. I also don't think there is any reason to buck convention just to make a point. If its jumping the broom, then "jump the broom". If its diving into a pool together blindfolded, then dive away! If you're two castaways with no hope of rescue, then just say "We do!" Really, I was trying to defend the idea that a legal marriage IS marriage. That there isn't any need to then have a "Christian" ceremony in order to make it biblical. It may be NICE to follow a justice-of-the-peace wedding with a "Church Wedding", but you're not any MORE married because you did it in a church. If you committed to each other in front of a judge, or in front of a preacher or a priest or a ship's captain, you're committed to each other for life because its ALL before God.

Okay, LS, I see what you're saying, and I agree that we're probably on the same page. It's just hard to explain, but I think you did a good job. That's pretty much what I was trying to say, but you explained it much better than I did.

Yeah, what LS said.

[ledgemoor]

Scripture does not require any ceremony to be married, but society has always supported and maintained marriage. There is a public aspect to marriage -- letting everyone know you are off the market of course, but more importantly for this discussion, preventing either of you from simply walking away from the marriage. So I believe that yes, a legal marriage really does marry you -- after all, you would need a divorce to get out of it -- and a church wedding is not necessary.

However, if she is Catholic, she may not agree.

At any rate, I think it is important to have some time off for your honeymoon. I would hate to get legally married, go home and make love for the first time, then have to get up to go to work the next day or on Monday!

My wife is Filipina too, BTW. Based on our experience, it would be wise for her to start stretching herself well before the honeymoon.

Congratulations, BTW.

[Balkie]

I was always taught a marriage isn't binding until the last "thank you" note for wedding gifts was written.

[ledgemoor]

Oops, I hope we didn't forget anyone!

[Titanium]

I was always taught a marriage isn't binding until the last "thank you" note for wedding gifts was written.

Whoops... guess we've been fornicating for 4 years then! (We never got ours done)...

[luvmygirls]

I was always taught a marriage isn't binding until the last "thank you" note for wedding gifts was written.

Whoops... guess we've been fornicating for 4 years then! (We never got ours done)...

Sinner.