Sex After The Legal Marriage Okay?

[Magnum9]

Even though DW and I did not wait till marriage , I would say this is absolutely strictly forbidden; however, we are catholic and it is the sacraments that brings us closest to God. Without the sacrament of matrimony you are not married in God's eyes. The legal paper in fact means nothing to us, it was the moment we spent in front of the alter with God and receiving him into our marriage at the same time by taking the Eucharist.

The day before our marriage we received the sacrament of reconciliation where we confessed our sins, then we received the sacrament of matrimony, and the the Eucharistic sacrament. 3 in two days , if your catholic you know how exciting that is, 3 out of the 6 possible (since we are getting married we cant get the Holy Orders sacrament).

I understand that likely most of your are not Catholic, so marriage will be a completely different type of ceremony and that your views of when you are actually married could be different. So don't take this as me telling you when it is right for you, but in our case if the paper wasn't signed and filed, we could still have sex after the ceremony in the church, that is when marriage happens for us, but if the documentation was filed without the ceremony (which it wouldn't be because the priest must sign it) then we could not have sex because we are not married into the union with God without the ceremony.

[wild will]

Post of the day goes to LANDSCHOONER! Right on the money!!

+1. My FIL told me before I married DW that he felt that Christian marriage was a heart issue. It was the commitment made between the bride and groom for life regardless of a ceremony. I was thinking "Are you for real? Are you telling me to... " VERY awkward. We did make to the wedding day though.

[HollyLena]

All very interesting. I feel the same way landschooner does. But, when I stated that when I first came to TMB, since I was "engaged", but stated that in our eyes and our discussion with God, we were married. I was torn apart for premarital sex. I stated that when I laid down with my now husband ( and now legal, and Christian ceremony on top of it) that I told God this is my husband. I have read scripture, and interpeted it the same way that Landschooner did.

I guess folks can change their views on it when they feel like it. I'm sticking to what I feel is right, and that's between God and I.

[sweetangel]

All very interesting. I feel the same way landschooner does. But, when I stated that when I first came to TMB, since I was "engaged", but stated that in our eyes and our discussion with God, we were married. I was torn apart for premarital sex. I stated that when I laid down with my now husband ( and now legal, and Christian ceremony on top of it) that I told God this is my husband. I have read scripture, and interpeted it the same way that Landschooner did.

I guess folks can change their views on it when they feel like it. I'm sticking to what I feel is right, and that's between God and I.

see I dont see it as marriage or ok to sleep with each other until it is legal. As in the eyes of man and God you are married.

Funny how we try and justify our own sins and say ahwell God blessed it. Dont know if that is what you are trying to do and this isn't really directed at you holly but an observation.

[HollyLena]

Sweetangle - No offence taken. I was agreeing with Landschooner. I'm good with God, and our marriage is blessed.
Every one, every region, every religion has a slightly different take on when it's an "official" marriage. I don't believe any of our modern day religious marriage ceremonies are referenced in the bible ( but I'm still reading and learning), so I do find it interesting. What may be considered "sin" with one religion or region of the world, many not be considered sin in another.

[luvmygirls]

In my understanding, deciding to be married is not the same as being married. If that had been the case, then when my bride and I knew that we were getting married a month into our relationship, we could have done whatever we wanted. That said, I live in a culture in which the marriage ceremony in which the marriage license is signed and vows are made IS the wedding, both legal and "Christian". Because a pastor did the ceremony, and Christ was the center, the legal marriage began with God's blessing. But God blessed us with each other long before we officially "became one" in the eyes of God and man. BECAUSE we have a system to which a specific union can be tied to a specific date, that date is where we know that our marriage union began. Tradition of man? Possibly, but I know that we, our friends and family, and the government will all recognize our union as honorable. If God left it strictly up to our own judgment as to when we actually are classified as married, could their truly be a prohibition against fornication?

IMO, depending on cultural standards which determine the import of both ceremonies, I think that you will be free to enjoy each other after the legal ceremony with God's blessings. The "Christian" wedding may then be seen as a celebration of the union by friends and family.

[HollyLena]

Deciding to get married isn't the same. But where I live, if you introduce yourself as Husband and wife to others, then you are. We did, and we also wore rings. It was just getting the time to get it 110% legal for everyone else outside of DH, myself and God.

[manygoodyears]

IMO, depending on cultural standards which determine the import of both ceremonies, I think that you will be free to enjoy each other after the legal ceremony with God's blessings. The "Christian" wedding may then be seen as a celebration of the union by friends and family.

And presumably the friends and family know that they are celebrating a past fact rather than being witnesses of sealing the actual marriage.

But in my own culture I would never recommend this approach. I think the church and both families are too important to just bring them in after the fact. We tend to be too individualistic as it is, IMO.

[rebelmom]

My DH and I believe that there is no such thing as premarital sex. Biblically if you slept with a woman you were suppose to make her your wife forever. However, adultery is another matter. Two people committing themselveves to each other for life in God's eyes, well that is no excuse not to make it legal as quickly as possible in my book. I am going through this very thing right now with 19 year old daughter and 17 year old boyfriend. He will be 18 in 4 months. I say make it legal, no excuses. It covers all your bases.

[jokerman]

My DH and I believe that there is no such thing as premarital sex. Biblically if you slept with a woman you were suppose to make her your wife forever. However, adultery is another matter. Two people committing themselveves to each other for life in God's eyes, well that is no excuse not to make it legal as quickly as possible in my book. I am going through this very thing right now with 19 year old daughter and 17 year old boyfriend. He will be 18 in 4 months. I say make it legal, no excuses. It covers all your bases.

What if they don't make it legal? That means a man slept with a woman and never made her his wife, and never covered his bases as you say. So wouldn't that be premarital sex, since no marriage ever happened?

[sweetangel]

My DH and I believe that there is no such thing as premarital sex. Biblically if you slept with a woman you were suppose to make her your wife forever. However, adultery is another matter. Two people committing themselveves to each other for life in God's eyes, well that is no excuse not to make it legal as quickly as possible in my book. I am going through this very thing right now with 19 year old daughter and 17 year old boyfriend. He will be 18 in 4 months. I say make it legal, no excuses. It covers all your bases.

So you are going to push those two babies to get married and more than likly be miserable for life because it covers their bases. Please dont do that.

[rebelmom]

rebelmom wrote:
My DH and I believe that there is no such thing as premarital sex. Biblically if you slept with a woman you were suppose to make her your wife forever. However, adultery is another matter. Two people committing themselveves to each other for life in God's eyes, well that is no excuse not to make it legal as quickly as possible in my book. I am going through this very thing right now with 19 year old daughter and 17 year old boyfriend. He will be 18 in 4 months. I say make it legal, no excuses. It covers all your bases.[/quote]

What if they don't make it legal? That means a man slept with a woman and never made her his wife, and never covered his bases as you say. So wouldn't that be premarital sex, since no marriage ever happened?

[/quote]

Then I would say they committed adultery.

.

So you are going to push those two babies to get married and more than likly be miserable for life because it covers their bases. Please dont do that.

Nope. I am not. I think what they are doing is wrong and they should stop acting like they are married. I think they are both too young to be married especially the boy. But to have sex and play house and act as though you are, if you are gonna do that then I say you need to make it right. My feeling is that this relationship will end eventually (they have been together about 10 months), they will both be hurt terribly ,and left with many scars.

I believe they really love each other but are just too young to handle the emotions that a physical relationship like this brings.

[sweetangel]

Why push for them to make it right when you know they will end it eventually?

Dont get your logic there

[jokerman]

rebelmom wrote:
My DH and I believe that there is no such thing as premarital sex. Biblically if you slept with a woman you were suppose to make her your wife forever. However, adultery is another matter. Two people committing themselveves to each other for life in God's eyes, well that is no excuse not to make it legal as quickly as possible in my book. I am going through this very thing right now with 19 year old daughter and 17 year old boyfriend. He will be 18 in 4 months. I say make it legal, no excuses. It covers all your bases.

What if they don't make it legal? That means a man slept with a woman and never made her his wife, and never covered his bases as you say. So wouldn't that be premarital sex, since no marriage ever happened?

[/quote]

Then I would say they committed adultery.
[/quote]

According to your definitions, there is no way to evaluate a current relationship as sin or not. Two high school kids sleeping together are either 1) just setting the stage for their eventual marriage, and therefore not sinning, or 2) defrauding each other's eventual spouses, and therefore committing adultery. But you can't know any of that at the time. You have to wait years before you can figure out if what they did was sin, or no biggie.

[thinkingswiftly]

My DH and I believe that there is no such thing as premarital sex. Biblically if you slept with a woman you were suppose to make her your wife forever. However, adultery is another matter. Two people committing themselveves to each other for life in God's eyes, well that is no excuse not to make it legal as quickly as possible in my book. I am going through this very thing right now with 19 year old daughter and 17 year old boyfriend. He will be 18 in 4 months. I say make it legal, no excuses. It covers all your bases.

In this case, I'd like to point out that "supposed to" and "married" are two different things. Christians are supposed to do or not do lots of things. Some churches teach that if you have sex with someone, then in God's eyes they ARE your spouse and discontinuing the relationship constitutes divorce. Is this your view point? I'd guess from the way you phrased everything and your responses that follow that it is not.

Given the situation, it would seem that you are proposing that they have no right to have sex and are sinning because they are not legally married, they are sinning because they are married but have not done the legal ceremony, or that they are committing adultery against a future spouse - unless they get married, but given that you are advocating them getting married to "cover all their bases" this view holds double jeopardy because if they get married then it could not have been adultery - fornication yes, but adultery no - or if they do get married and end up torn apart because they are too immature, then one of them will be trapped, according to God's law, as an adulterer for life unless significant abuse happens.

No matter which way you turn here, saying anything other than fornication is sin creates pretty dramatic issues. I'm not just talking about logical inconsistency here. I'm talking about putting your own words into God's mouth.


I would urge you, let nature run its course. While I am strongly against premarital sex, it is sin and just like other sins, can be repented of. It might have some long term ramifications on life, but not nearly as many as being a 20 year old divorcee. It is also possible that they will stay together. Believe it or not, there is statistical evidence (inside and outside Christian circles) to show that marriages "to cover all the bases" generally fail out right within 10 years. No matter how much I would be upset if (when I have them) my child/ren were having sex, I would deal much better with that than encouraging a wedding I felt would fail. I'd much rather they find the right person and marry in the same season than let some overactive hormones dictate their future sorrows.

[CubbieChuck]

Sweetangle - No offence taken. I was agreeing with Landschooner. I'm good with God, and our marriage is blessed.
Every one, every region, every religion has a slightly different take on when it's an "official" marriage. I don't believe any of our modern day religious marriage ceremonies are referenced in the bible ( but I'm still reading and learning), so I do find it interesting. What may be considered "sin" with one religion or region of the world, many not be considered sin in another.

You might want to read the Landschooner quote again. I think he is saying that in the USA (and many other places), you are married by law, not by religion or by the will of "girl, guy, God". He was saying a couple can "choose" their marriage start only in places where there is no legally defined marriage. Most of the civilized world does consider marriage a legal act. The important thing is that for couples who double-dip... a trip to the Justice of the Peace is more of a definitive start to the marriage than a trip down the aisle at church. Legal supersedes Ceremony. [And church-only weddings offer legal provision.]

[rebelmom]

Why push for them to make it right when you know they will end it eventually?

Dont get your logic there

I am not pushing them to get married. I wish my daughter would wise up, but she doesn't see they are doing anything wrong. They say they are committed to each other and are married in God's eyes. Although she wants the paper to prove it, he says lets just live together.

[rebelmom]

[In this case, I'd like to point out that "supposed to" and "married" are two different things. Christians are supposed to do or not do lots of things. Some churches teach that if you have sex with someone, then in God's eyes they ARE your spouse and discontinuing the relationship constitutes divorce. Is this your view point? I'd guess from the way you phrased everything and your responses that follow that it is not.

My church does not teach this. Just a personal thing. I do believe that a religious ceremony is the important one in God's eyes. But we are also to obey the laws of the land as long as they do not go against God. Having that piece of paper if you do not live in a common law state does have benefits and I think it is the right thing to do .
Given the situation, it would seem that you are proposing that they have no right to have sex and are sinning because they are not legally married, they are sinning because they are married but have not done the legal ceremony, or that they are committing adultery against a future spouse - unless they get married, but given that you are advocating them getting married to "cover all their bases" this view holds double jeopardy because if they get married then it could not have been adultery - fornication yes, but adultery no - or if they do get married and end up torn apart because they are too immature, then one of them will be trapped, according to God's law, as an adulterer for life unless significant abuse happens.

I do see your point. I believe if you are going to have sex then you should at the least be married in a religious ceremony, publicly. So no, they have no right to have sex without the ceremony.
Getting married legally to cover your bases makes good sense to me. Why would you want to live with someone who could walk away, except in common law states, instead of being totally committed and having a reason(ring) to stay and work things out when problems arose?

Thankfully God does forgive.

No matter which way you turn here, saying anything other than fornication is sin creates pretty dramatic issues. I'm not just talking about logical inconsistency here. I'm talking about putting your own words into God's mouth.

That was not my intent.

I would urge you, let nature run its course. While I am strongly against premarital sex, it is sin and just like other sins, can be repented of. It might have some long term ramifications on life, but not nearly as many as being a 20 year old divorcee. It is also possible that they will stay together. Believe it or not, there is statistical evidence (inside and outside Christian circles) to show that marriages "to cover all the bases" generally fail out right within 10 years. No matter how much I would be upset if (when I have them) my child/ren were having sex, I would deal much better with that than encouraging a wedding I felt would fail. I'd much rather they find the right person and marry in the same season than let some overactive hormones dictate their future sorrows.

All I can do is pray. She doesn't listen to any reasoning from me. I know I have to let her make her own mistakes in order to become a mature adult. But it sure is hard sometimes.LOL

[luvmygirls]

Deciding to get married isn't the same. But where I live, if you introduce yourself as Husband and wife to others, then you are. We did, and we also wore rings. It was just getting the time to get it 110% legal for everyone else outside of DH, myself and God.

Holly, I hope I wasn't implying otherwise in my post, and my apologies if I was offensive in any way. I was addressing that in my culture, the US, The legal ceremony is the same ceremony as the Christian ceremony. My bride and I were married in a Christian ceremony, but the ordained minister was officiating, being recognized by the state; the marriage license was there and was signed by the required parties, and our friends and families were there to be a part of this important event. That is the typical way that Christian marriages are done in the US (I say typical, not universal). Some, however, decide to elope (or run off for a quick wedding) or go to the local court for a legal ceremony. Some have a bigger ceremony with friends and family later on, but some never do. My point is that the legal ceremony is recognized by most everyone here, with or without a follow-up ceremony.

So when I said, "Deciding to be married shouldn't be viewed the same as being married", that was simply from the context of my culture, not having an understanding of your culture. So even if I introduced my girlfriend or fiancee as my wife, that does not make it so because legally we weren't until we received our license and had an officiant preside over the wedding, in our case, a pastor. Does that make sense? In other words, just because I call a woman my wife and she refers to me as her husband, no one else will recognize it as such until the state recognizes the union.

[HollyLena]

I'm in the US also. We have common law in our state. You say it, you share the bills, joint accounts etc, you are recognized as husband and wife in this state, that simple. We even wore our rings. We went two steps further. We signed a marriage license, and we also had a Christian wedding, just for us. We've been married before, no sense in having a big wedding. But, we did have our pastor there, and we did say our vows. So, we did it in every possibly way you could I guess!?!?
So for us, we've been committed to each other and married, actually "legally" in our state, with all the good and bad things that can come from that for some time. We just made sure for all the "others" (who in my opinion don't count, only God, husband and wife "count" in my opinion when it comes to the union), also recognized us as husband and wife. So my husband, has been my husband since I laid down with him.

To go one step further, I have a teenage daughter, she'll be off to college next year. She has fallen in the past, and as any mother, I was mortified. This was before she was saved, and before either of us were really understanding and living a Christian life. What I've taught her is that premarital sex is a sin. But, I've also told her, that casual sex is not correct. I've told her that if she's going to have sex, then she needs to ask her self if she intends for this man to be her husband, and if he intends the same thing. She has been pure since her mistake. She has learned, she has found God the same as I have. She also thinks twice now when she does date young men. And she realizes that these young men are not worthy of being her husband, and she has stayed away from sin, she is pure again. Because now she has the knowledge that she did not have before.