We were determined!

[thisbejoe7]

Got a few minutes and thought I'd post something in here. My wife and I got engaged and married at age 18. We dated for 2 years before this. We never had sex of any kind but did get to rolling around on the floor kissing. A few times I would slip my hand in her back pocket, stuff like that. I was young and ignorant but at the same time we had both determined to remain virgins until marriage. We did it just fine and really didn't struggle with this at all. Even in heated times when we both were wrapped in intense kissing and stuff, we never went any further. Its been my experience hearing from other people that this is where they usually get in trouble. When they get alone and things get heated and one thing leads to another and bang, there you go. I know that other couples are able to remain virgins while dating, but I think its more uncommon these days even among Christians. I wonder why it seemed so easy for us to remain pure when so many other people struggle. I guess it helps when both partners are determined to remain pure and know the boundaries and stick to them.

[2gether4ever94]

First off I'd like to say good for you both!! I'm glad that you were able to abstain esp. as the day drew closer. While I can't and won't speak for everyone here I'll speak for myself.

I wasn't raised in a christian home. I was intro'd to porn at a very early age and that curse haunted me until I finally confessed it to God and Smoothie. That (porn) changed me though. My thoughts about women and what happens regardin sex. Not for the better either I might add.

Now that I'm saved and have been delivered and forgiven of my sins and my past I know the truth and that I should've saved everythin for my Smoothie. But when you don't know Him at all one doesn't know better so to speak.

I and I'm sure many others here wish that we were pure on our respective weddin nights and that's part of the reason that we try and convey that it's best to WAIT!!!

My 0.02

2g

[cutecouple]

Got a few minutes and thought I'd post something in here. My wife and I got engaged and married at age 18. We dated for 2 years before this. We never had sex of any kind but did get to rolling around on the floor kissing. A few times I would slip my hand in her back pocket, stuff like that. I was young and ignorant but at the same time we had both determined to remain virgins until marriage. We did it just fine and really didn't struggle with this at all. Even in heated times when we both were wrapped in intense kissing and stuff, we never went any further. Its been my experience hearing from other people that this is where they usually get in trouble. When they get alone and things get heated and one thing leads to another and bang, there you go. I know that other couples are able to remain virgins while dating, but I think its more uncommon these days even among Christians. I wonder why it seemed so easy for us to remain pure when so many other people struggle. I guess it helps when both partners are determined to remain pure and know the boundaries and stick to them.

[b] From my experience:
Prior to having sex, I had NO desire to have it ; I could have waited to have sex for as long as I chose.
But after having sex (pre-marital) I could no longer say same. My body actually started to [b]CRAVING sex.
In my opinion it is so much easier to have not have sex, and continue to go without, rather then experiencing what sex is/feels like and then trying to abstain from it.[/b]

[thisbejoe7]

cutecouple, I agree, I think there is something nice about discovering sex together, but one thing I would change is my knowledge level. I think it would have been great to have an older couple share some information with us before we just tried to figure things out on our own. Then bad habbits don't form as easily and we would have been armed with information and knowledge and not have had to go on blind assumption and stumble through...

[Mr. Rkt]

Good morning, Joe.

Different couples have different thresholds when it comes to what they can withstand prior to marriage without "going over." The two of you were able to get pretty hot and heavy without having sexual intercourse. Another couple might have found even that level of activity to be too much to bear.

I would like to draw a distinction between two words you used, because sometimes people use them interchangeably, and they are not the same. There is a pretty serious difference between remaining "pure" and remaining a "virgin." Virginity is not purity. It is a symptom of purity. Plainly put, virginity means that one has not yet experienced sexual intercourse. Purity goes way beyond that, and speaks to the condition of one's mind and body as a whole, regardless of virginity.

For example, it is possible that the episodes of romping on the floor that you described were full of lust and inappropriate thought, and might even have been the fodder of masturbatory thought later. If so, these were clearly not "pure." In fact, they were as sinful as premarital sex, and something from which you needed to be cleansed in order to be pure. See the difference?

I don't want to put words into your mouth. You did a good thing by saving your virginity to marriage. I just wanted to make that distinction for any readers who might have missed it.

[Job29Man]

It's so great that you waited. That's an excellent testimony and thanks for sharing it. I'm glad you are not embarrassed to say it and I hope you will feel comfortable to continue to share it IRL in the appropriate settings, especially with young people.

Lord bless you both,

Job

[luvmygirls]

I also think it's great that you two were able to wait, but I would like to back up what Rocket said as well. Our church is having a Purity Tea coming up and I wrote a preparation guide making this very point. It was good to see someone else post the exact same thing as the point I was making in that guide.

It is a very difficult thing for some people. Many things come into play: background, natural drives, previous experiences, etc. Even the making out and hand in the back pocket is farther than some would say singles should go. Either way, I think you two can serve as an example and, as Job mentioned, take advantage of opportunities to share that. If you roll that in with a fuller understanding of purity, as Rocket mentioned, you can present both encouragement and challenge to singles.

[gulfcoastgal]

PTL, Joe that you and your DW were able to hold true. I would just like to add another voice to the "purity vs. virginity" distinction that Mr. Rkt spelled out beautifully. I think the dilemma increases in proportion to dating length of time. DH and I were fine for the two years you and your DW had as a courtship period. However, over the course of eight years, the lines blurred. While technically a virgin, I was NOT pure. Thanks to HIS grace we have both been forgiven. I don't see it as a problem in our marriage, but at the same time don't want to minimize the sin.

[thisbejoe7]

Thank you all for the input and clarifications. I totally get what you guys are saying about the distinction between purity and virginity, I do understand that distinction and should have worded my post a little better to avoid any confusion. Nonetheless, great comments and thanks for your input!

[InJoy]

Yea both partners have to be determined, my fiance adn I recently had a good breakthrough and determincatino / recommitment time (of which I made a new post today about). Also I believe that a Christian can feed their flesh one way and there flesh manifest in a different way. For example : if you have trouble giving in to your appetite and you always over eat or eat unnessecary snacks through out the day - this feeds your flesh and you become weaker to saying no. So this makes your flesh stronger and you obey it more and it may manifest in sexual temptations. Because you have had a hard time resisting the 1st sin you then are more prone to giving in to another sin - your "flesh" is one big old pot of nastiness not seperate containers one labeled "lust" another "gluttony" another "pride" another "materialism" etc.

So maybe it was easier for yall because you two had a better grip on your flesh and thus a closer walk with Christ. Not sure.

I believe that the best way to show your love for your future spouse is by staying pure and helping them hep themselves closer to God.

[ledgemoor]

For example, it is possible that the episodes of romping on the floor that you described were full of lust and inappropriate thought, and might even have been the fodder of masturbatory thought later. If so, these were clearly not "pure." In fact, they were as sinful as premarital sex....

Mr. RKT, I enjoy your excellent posts and most of the time we are on the same page, and I agree with what you are saying about virginity and purity -- that viriginty alone is not enough. But I need to comment on this statement! If you follow this line of thought to its conclusion, the results could be dangerous.

Jesus said that lusting after a woman is committing adultery with her in your heart. (Not sure if this applies to single folks or not, but for sake of argument, I'll assume it does.) Heart adultry is not as serious as bodily adultry. If you have physical adultery with someone, your wife is permitted to divorce you. Merely lusting after someone else is not grounds for divorce.

Some of us are virgins when we marry, and some of us aren't. But we've ALL come up short on purity at one time or another, especially if God's requirements really are as per the example you give. What guy hasn't thought about his girlfriend while masturbating?

In my opinion, there is a danger that if someone lusts after a fiancee while masturbating, and sincerely feels as though he has messed up as bad as if he had fornicated -- that the negative effects on his relationship with his fiancee and God are going to be as great --then what is to be lost by actually having sex?

I agree, purity beyond viriginity is good and expected of us. Fornication is an event that purity will hopefully keep us several steps from committing. But purity itself is a lifelong journey with inevitable bumps in the road.

[Mr. Rkt]

Good morning, ledgemoor. Thanks for the gentleness of your critique.

I'm not sure we disagree. I acknowledge that the earthly consequences of the sins are quite different, and the spiritual consequences to others are quite different. However, I did say "sin." I am not convinced that there are rankings of "sin." If it is our goal to avoid sin (I know, we are all sinners, we all sin every day, but still), then we should be able to say what sin is. It is that act of defiance which puts us apart from God. It separates us from Him, and only Christ can reconcile it.

Christ sought to break the legalistic division between the more corporeal sins and the thought sins by pointing out that both are sin, and both deserve and lead to death. I think that one of the reasons why it is so hard to get young people to understand why lust matters, is that they have been convinced that there are mild sins and bad sins. There are no such things. There are just sins.

[hubbyforher]

I think it's great when people are virgins when they get married. Both my DW and I were virgins when we got married to one another, and I'm glad that we can tell our children we did, and provide them with a good example.

I think one way of helping to remain virgins during the dating/courting process is to communicate to one another that you both wish to remain virgins until married. That way, if the male is feeling weak, the female knows he truly wants to stay a virgin, and vice-versa. It can create some accountability for one another.

However, I was naive enough to think that simply because I had remained a virgin, that my marriage bed would be all that I imagined it to be. Alas, it isn't so. I often wrestle with resentment because of it. Having said that, I don't obey God in order to get what I want. I obey out of love for Him and my believe that His law is for my own good, even though I don't fully appreciate what that good is.

I KNOW in my heart that staying a virgin was the right thing to do, but I also feel in my flesh that if I'd been sexually active in college like all my buddies were, at least I would've had some hot sex with somebody....

But God is faithful, and my prayer is that one day my DW and I will have the sex life for the next 20 years that we could have had for the past 20 years.

[dearest]

Communicating this desire is essential. We recently talked about how much we look forward to sex but also to how disappointed we would be if we did not enjoy our first time after our wedding. To us it's such a big deal, and so appealing to us to have that first time experience after our wedding that the thought of having sex now is "ouch" painful like fingers down a chalk board, and hurts our hearts, we'd feel sick. In the same breath, we both desire each other (oneness), and sex. Occasionally talking about it and reaffirming it, and sharing thoughts or ideas on the topic all help. It's something we look forward to, and will fight to protect.

[blushingwife]

I agree with the others that say that there a lot more factors that come into play as to whether a couple can remain virgins until the wedding night besides determination alone.
The circumstances DH and I were in were extremely difficult and created the perfect storm and we ended up having premarital sex.
I don't think that a couple stumbles because they are "less" commited and determined than the ones that don't. In fact, that idea rubbed me a bit the wrong way...
Now, DH and I were not very good at communicating - that would have helped us not stumble. We did make it right before the wedding though
And I have to agree with Mr.Rkt that there is a lot to be said about the attitude as well.

[Titanium]

Communicating this desire is essential. We recently talked about how much we look forward to sex but also to how disappointed we would be if we did not enjoy our first time after our wedding. To us it's such a big deal, and so appealing to us to have that first time experience after our wedding that the thought of having sex now is "ouch" painful like fingers down a chalk board, and hurts our hearts, we'd feel sick. In the same breath, we both desire each other (oneness), and sex. Occasionally talking about it and reaffirming it, and sharing thoughts or ideas on the topic all help. It's something we look forward to, and will fight to protect.

I'm sure that what I'm about to say is what you were meaning to say - but I hope you are talking through that feeling of disappointment, hurt hearts and the like.

If you spend a bit of time reading on here (and reading various books on the subject), I think you will find that whilst your feelings are valid (all feelings are), it could do your married life a lot of harm if you went into marriage expecting fireworks on your wedding night and didn't get them, and instead had struggles (as many members on here have shared happened to them).

I am hoping some older and wiser members will come on here and discuss this with you a bit further, as your post had a few 'warning signals' when I read it - and a belief such as the one you have shared could lead to some long-term issues in the future.

Have a read of TMB on the various threads around about first-time sex, and the expectations one SHOULD have about their wedding night. There are some great posts on this topic here, and it would be very beneficial to you to read them.

[2gether4ever94]

Communicating this desire is essential. We recently talked about how much we look forward to sex but also to how disappointed we would be if we did not enjoy our first time after our wedding. To us it's such a big deal, and so appealing to us to have that first time experience after our wedding that the thought of having sex now is "ouch" painful like fingers down a chalk board, and hurts our hearts, we'd feel sick. In the same breath, we both desire each other (oneness), and sex. Occasionally talking about it and reaffirming it, and sharing thoughts or ideas on the topic all help. It's something we look forward to, and will fight to protect.

Ya know somethin I think it's great that y'all are able to talk about this. Smoothie and I didn't, had different expectations, and if ya add up everythin we did wrong and didn't or couldn't (didn't know how to) talk about that caused us HUGE problems that took us YEARS to overcome.

I'm glad that ya both want to protect your combined purity. And I take it as a good sign that ya both have the thoughts and desires (I believe that's normal, natural, and imo healthy). And I think it's HUGE that you two can talk about it.

One piece of advice if I may............

On your wedding night ,
RELAX. ENJOY. And don't try everythin you've talked about, read about, heard about. Also don't be surprised ( I hope it is) if it's not a 10 because you're both on an emotional rollercoaster, you're goin to be TIRED. Plus you'll have the rest of your lives to enjoy each other.


My 0.02 anyway,

2g

[thinkingswiftly]

I agree here.

Don't expect fireworks. Of the couples I've known who got married (early 20s), about half, maybe less, get a great honeymoon. Most of the ones who had a great honeymoon share these traits: they got handsy a couple times before they were married (though handsy can mean vastly different things to different couples), they did a lot of internet research into the subject before the honeymoon, they relaxed and had fun on the honeymoon, and they had their laptops near the bed the whole honeymoon.

Going in to your honeymoon, the most important thing I can tell you is worry about resting the most. I slept great going into the wedding day, DW didn't. She probably slept 75% of our time together for the first day. A friend of mine who got married told me as I was congratulating him and leaving the reception said "You know, I'm starting to think that this whole honeymoon thing really isn't about having wild sex the whole time. I've only been getting 2 hours of sleep per night for the past week. I'm too tired to even think about sex right now!"

[dearest]

Oh, I did not mean we have high expectations of our first night together. When I say we are looking forward to our wedding night, here is what I mean:

*We look forward to not saying "good night" and parting ways
*We look forward to kissing on the mouth - if we enjoy kissing eachother's faces, we have reason to.
*We look forward to spending the whole night together, no sleeping in seperate beds.
*We look forward to touching each other instead of avoiding things or places always aware and alert not go to there.
*We look forward to being within the safe boundary of marriage to be declothing eachother.
*We look forward to not having to be dressed modestly - we both like skin.

If intercourse happens, great, if not, no big deal, we have time, and we both agree on this. In fact we might take advantage of our self control and enjoyment of just cuddling to let that first night go by without sex. We are both high physical touch love languages. We've napped together and have slept quite deeply next to eachother and we're both naturally light sleepers. So this is something we look forward to. He nor I feel sex is a "must do" on your wedding night, we don't want to be virgins our whole married life, and we both have a good deal of passion so eventually we'll get to it, but we'll enjoy everything up to that point to it's fullest there isn't a hurry.

As to the whole hurting/soreness issue, we've both been discreet about our anatomy but I'm not worried or afraid. It'll be a learning adventure for both of us.

[mr. emu]

Most of the ones who had a great honeymoon share these traits ... and they had their laptops near the bed the whole honeymoon.

First choice ... have crazy fun figuring out some basics + an option or two on your own.
Second choice ... bring a book or two along ... "hey, let's try page 42!"
Last choice (right after, "Call Grandma") ... consult Google

Leave the computer at home ... the only "laptops" on honeymoons should be what DW does for DH after she ties him to a chair.