Addressing Sexual Past and Future Problems

[marchmadness]

Sweetparker, that was very beautifully written. I thank you for that. It really helped to put things into perspective.

Not to offend anyone, but it did seem like the popular opinion was that a person's past shouldn't affect whether or not you should marry them. Sort of like "Yeah saving yourself for marriage is important for YOU to do, but your future spouse probably won't and if you can't accept that then you're the one with the problem."

I personally don't like this idea that I or anyone else who is a virgin and wants to find someone else who is somehow makes me less forgiving than anyone else. Like a lot of things, everything is in God's hands. If he calls me to marry a woman who's had 100 sex partners and isn't entirely repentant of it, I'd still do it because He called me to.

That said, God gives us free will so we are allowed to at least have some opinion on what it is we want in a spouse. If we didn't, all of you would've married the first person you ever dated (even though some of you have lol).

Don't get me wrong, I want a great sex life like most people. And in my younger days, I used to think that marrying a woman who had a lot of experience would be the best way to get that. I had the idea that a promiscuous girl was that way because she loved sex and if I marry her, we'll have sex twice a day every day But I've now learned that that is far from the truth most of the time.

Best case scenario to me would be to find someone else who's also virgin. This way we'd both have a clean slate to build something special. She would understand the type of struggle it takes to stay pure when people are literally having drunk sex in the next room. Even if the sex wasn't that great for a while, we know that we wouldn't have to deal with comparisons and guilt, giving the enemy one less weapon to use against our marriage.

I have known numerous females throughout high school and college who weren't virgins and were active in the casual sex culture. And it never ever stopped me from forming very good friendships with them. I've had friends who drank, smoked weed, cursed, were of different Christian denominations, Jewish, atheist, Muslim, etc. Absolutely NONE of those factors affected how I see those people as my friends. But a friendship and a marriage are completely different situations. As much as I have love for those people, I have not made a vow to become one with them.

I think having standards when it comes to marriage and dating are a good thing. If I were to say that I don't care about whether or not my future spouse values purity, it would be too easy for me to not care about my own either. It's like if I want to get that, I have to be willing to give it as well. That's not to say that I deserve anything special just because I saved myself. But what I mean is I take what I have to offer seriously. It's not something I want to give to just anyone, even if it is within marriage. I don't know, maybe I'm too into the whole spiritual aspect of sex and love

Many of you are in situations where one was a virgin and the other wasn't and your marriage is flourishing. But there also members who were in the same situation and describe their marriages as hell on earth. In the past I never really understood why God calls us to save sex for marriage. But as I was reading through some of the posts and learning what sex really is from a Biblical standpoint, it now makes a lot more sense.

[sweetangel]

so I am assuming that you "semi engagement" is off. WOW and all because she had been with other men . How unloving is that.

I am glad you aren't marrying her she sounds like she is better off without that kind of attitude toward her past sin.

[hartheal]

Many of you are in situations where one was a virgin and the other wasn't and your marriage is flourishing.

The issue is not really virgin, or not virgin....
What matters, is "better", or "worse"....

If your spouse is better than your exes, you're happy....
If your spouse is worse than your exes, you're miserable.....

If you're viewed as "better", you're happy....
If you're viewed as "worse", you're in hell....

[Mr. Rkt]

Heartheal, exactly what do you mean by "better" and "worse?" Relationships with lovers and spouses are very complex. Are you talking about something specific, or an overall assessment of the person?

[hartheal]

I was speaking about sexual experience, ability, and anatomy.

[landschooner]

Well. This is what dating is for. If its not a match, its not a match. I don't think its an issue of forgiveness. Until you are married, you are not committed. Reserve your commitment for the one that you want to commit to. You don't even have to HAVE a reason to break up - though that would seem silly - You are NOT Committed. Don't be cruel, but be honest and choose as wisely as you can.
Once you are married, your choice is made. Before you are married, you have not yet made your choice. Its your choice to make. If you want to marry a virgin, then marry a virgin.

[sweetangel]

I was speaking about sexual experience, ability, and anatomy.

But how do you know that if you choose to wait. OH I get it you dont so you choose the virgin in the corner becuase well they are pure. Sorry bad logic. A lot of the virgins that have married virgins seem to have lack luster sex lives anyway so I dont think being a virgin is any difference it is attitude.

[Mr. Rkt]

I was speaking about sexual experience, ability, and anatomy.

I don't quite know what to say. It is sinful to make those comparisons. It is dishonoring of one's spouse.

I didn't have any experience before marriage. But if I had, and if one of them "rang the bell" physically in a way that just can't seem to be repeated, that's my own fault. It's not my spouse's, and if I can't condemn that past experience as "worse" simply because it was wrong and sinful, then I'm one shallow dude.

Sex within marriage is the best because it is blessed. If, in a purely physical way, it's not "awesome" from the start, then in love and commitment, the couple needs to work selflessly to figure out how to make it awesome. After 15 years with my wife, and with the way we love each other, I can't imagine wandering back in my mind to some tart in the past. I'd be ashamed of it every time I thought of it, then looked at my wife.

Shame on your wife for saying that. It focuses on the wrong things, and it's a lie.

[marchmadness]

so I am assuming that you "semi engagement" is off. WOW and all because she had been with other men . How unloving is that.

I am glad you aren't marrying her she sounds like she is better off without that kind of attitude toward her past sin.

Comments like this confuse me a bit. First of all, nothing is off. I'm searching for some guidance and help from a godly perspective. If I were truly the a-hole you're making me out to be, this relationship would've been over a long time ago. This is not a situation where a self-righteous virgin is looking down on an experienced woman and calling her a whore. This is a situation where a young man is trying to understand life. That's all. But thank you for assuming the worst of me.

I was speaking about sexual experience, ability, and anatomy.

But how do you know that if you choose to wait. OH I get it you dont so you choose the virgin in the corner becuase well they are pure. Sorry bad logic. A lot of the virgins that have married virgins seem to have lack luster sex lives anyway so I dont think being a virgin is any difference it is attitude.

But then why do any of us bother waiting or telling our children to wait for marriage? If the past is the past and everyone needs to be required to overlook it, then why am I wasting my time staying a virgin? She and I could go ahead and seal the deal right? I think that's where my confusion lies. Not with her not waiting, but with me waiting. There are times when it makes sense, and times when it doesn't. Should I get off of the whole virgin to virgin marriage idea? I'm asking this honestly. I'm technically an adult, but I'm still young and open to learning new truths about life.

[landschooner]

Not with her not waiting, but with me waiting. There are times when it makes sense, and times when it doesn't. Should I get off of the whole virgin to virgin marriage idea? I'm asking this honestly. I'm technically an adult, but I'm still young and open to learning new truths about life.

Obey the Lord. As far a marriage virgin to virgin, THAT is up to you, but YOU need to obey the Lord and abstain from sin. Strive to please Him in all that you do. It MAY please Him for you to marry this woman. He does not have any rules against it, but He does tell YOU to refrain from sex until marriage.

It isn't just about if its better or worse to marry with or without experience. I think marriages can go good or bad either way. Its about pleasing the Lord. Many sins have short term or "wordly" advantages. (If I rob a bank - I am rich and I can send my kids to Christian prep schools etc) BUT, in robbing the bank and getting rich, I am offending the Lord.

[Mr. Rkt]

marchmadness, I don't understand why sweetangel lashes out the way she does. Perhaps she doesn't understand how sarcastic her tone sounds. If it bothers you, just look past her posts, to the ones that are speaking to your heart and your convictions.

There is NOTHING wrong with you for being concerned about this, or even for considering it a deal breaker. Honestly, it doesn't mean that you are "unloving." It does, however, indicate that you do not really love this woman. That's good for you to know, and as a poster said above, you are not committed to her, and don't need a reason to break it off, if you feel that it is not headed toward marriage. That's best for both of you.

I would encourage you to think of your virginity this way. I'm not claiming to be wise or perfect, but this is how I thought of mine. I didn't "give it to my wife." I gave it to God. It was my sacrifice in obedience to Him. Before I was the husband of my wife, I was the Bride of Christ. He supplied the love I needed in those days. He got me through the very difficult dating years. He healed my loneliness when my refusal to participate in sex kept relationships from developing further.

He blessed me with the love of my life. I knew that I wanted to marry her the day I met her. I never doubted it after that. That had never happened to me before, and it has not diminished in 16 years. When we married, our first time together was after our wedding, and we gave ourselves, all that we were, to each other, in blessed purity.

Looking back from 15 years later, I cannot think of one thing that virginity would have improved in our marriage, other than an unfounded anxiety on my part for a time, and that has since healed.

That isn't to say that sexual sin is okay. It's not. But you're focusing on the wrong reasons for remaining a virgin. The right reasons are to please God and to be obedient to Him. You can only do that for yourself. You cannot do it for anyone else. When you find a wife, she may marry a virgin -- but she'll also be marrying someone who has lusted in his heart, who has been dishonest, who has acted in greed, right? Surely there were losses of innocence and consequences associated with those things, too. It would have been better all around if you had never done those things. But she will love you enough to accept your repentance for past sin, and to forgive you when you sin in the future, and to work to strengthen your bond to each other and to God.

The reward for remaining a virgin to marriage isn't that you get to marry a virgin (though that sometimes happens, too). It is that you grow closer to God through that period of fasting, and you can present purity to your bride. She will be presenting purity to you, too, whether it is original purity or whether it is purity redeemed -- but if she is true to your convictions when you meet and fall in love, it will be purity nonetheless.

So cherish and guard your chastity; but value your purity, and that of your future spouse.

[marchmadness]

WOW. That really made a lot of sense. I'll admit I've never had clear cut knowledge of the concept of virginity and all of that. My church would teach how sex was only for marriage, but never said why except for because God said so. Couple this with the fact that pretty much everyone around me (Christians included) were doing it and a high sex drive, it made things even more difficult and confusing. But you're right, I should step back and try to align my heart with God's will.

[ClearBlueSky]

Marchmadness wrote:

Like the fact that she was never truly "on board" with us abstaining until marriage. She isn't promiscuous at all (i.e. no one night stands), but she has no problem sleeping with someone if they're in a relationship and in love. As much as we love each other, there seem to be other things that make us a little "unequally yoked".

I think some may have missed this, I think more importantly being virgin vs. non-virgin is if this is the way she believes and they have children, will they be teaching the same view that sex outside marriage is a sin and is not okay? It sounds like to me, she still has no problem with sex outside marriage. This alarms me on your behalf.

And in my younger days, I used to think that marrying a woman who had a lot of experience would be the best way to get that. I had the idea that a promiscuous girl was that way because she loved sex and if I marry her, we'll have sex twice a day every day very happy But I've now learned that that is far from the truth most of the time.

This was exactly what I thought, and it was the "false thought" that I used to calm my fears and anxieties about marrying someone who was not a virgin. Imagine how my life came crashing down six months into marriage when she started refusing. I hate to put it this way, because there may be some women on this board that had a promiscuous past that did it because they really did like sex, but what I've seen with misguided nieces and other friends children is that sex is commonly a commodity that young girls are able to "purchase" something with, whether it's esteem from having a certain boyfriend, lifestyle, circle of friends, but after marriage, it doesn't "purchase" anything anymore, especially in my relationship, because I provide, love, food, shelter regardless the level of sexual activity. I think my big red flags should have been 1) Philosophy of the parents (mother especially) 2) The "selfishness" meter (most of that didn't show up until after marriage either).

Many of you who know my story know that I am working through anger and bitterness about my decision to marry a non-virgin because of her refusal. I don't know how/if everything relates and goes together, but it's kind of like this analogy, sometimes you come down sick to your stomach with the flu and say you ate a certain type of food or at a certain restaurant. Most likely, you got the flu when you took your kid to school that morning and checked them in at the office, the bug got you there, but you can't help but have a psychological disdain for the restaurant or the food you ate, because that was "around" when you got sick. Same thing here with me, I'm starting to realize that her refusal is a separate sin from what she did many years ago when she gave her virginity to someone she wasn't married to, but I still hold a disdain for that, because in my heart, I don't know if that "ruined" her, or I don't know if she desires him more subconsciously, or some one-night stand in her bar-life that followed. I'm not really sure where this disease come from. I feel that I'm very kind to her anyway, she praises me for the kind of husband that I am, so I don't think I need to read "Sex Begins in the Kitchen" again. I would never want to go back, but if I were to, or if I were to advise my sons, I would have a long, hard look at your potential spouses parents, how they treat each other, how this is displayed to the children in the home, or look for any evidence of how things were growing up, but also, how much someone values their sexuality to me is a big indicator of how that person will value it in marriage. I'm not saying someone can't be redeemed, but I always reiterate, there are always physical, temporal consequences to sin, and I couldn't help but advise that to my sons as they begin to date, both for themselves to steer clear and keep themselves pure, but to watch for how the other person values and has valued their sexual purity.

One last thing that always bugs me when someone wants to lash out and criticize someone for taking virginity into account. What if you had a daughter and she was dating a man, and 10 years ago that man was convicted for a sexual offense with a minor, but had since served their punishment, became a Christian and assured that nothing like this has ever happened again or promises it will never happen again. What if this daughter became a little unsure when she learned of this, would she be considered unforgiving and met with:

How unloving is that.

Sure, the sexual sin element is here, but there is an extra element of repugnance because of the "child offender" status. Of course, I would advise anyone to be extremely cautious about a union that includes such a past as this. What about STD's? I have a whole additional story about that and my engagement period. When I was concerned and asked if her OB/Gyn pre-marriage visit, they discussed that, she flew off the handle and said they didn't and her feelings were really hurt. Another clue should have been obvious to me.

I think young people often don't take into account some personal sacrifices and are very idealistic at times. I know a couple that only lasted 7 years because he was handicapped, she wasn't, she cared for him but then the impact of not having children, the dragging on day to day with this difficulty was not something that she was really ready to take on. During their engagement if you talked to her, I'm sure she really thought, love can overcome anything, God can give me the strength, which God did for a period of time until she chose that she could no longer take it. There is nothing wrong or unloving about deciding not to marry someone because of a drug past, a sex past, because they already have children, etc. The actual "loving" part of that is when someone can have the guts to face up to fact they can't handle it and let that person move on to someone who can handle it.

[sweetangel]

I am angry for this girl that she has been discarded because of this it is just sad.

[marchmadness]

I am angry for this girl that she has been discarded because of this it is just sad.

I should reiterate that it wasn't her not being a virgin that's the issue. It's been her view of her past that concerned me. She's known CHrist her whole life, known sex out of marriage was wrong, but still did it. It wasn't like she never knew. That's what causes me concern.

And I know the only reason you're mad is because you were probably in this situation as well. But I can more than likely guess that by the time you met your husband, you had made a full repentance of your past thus making it easier for him. I haven't gotten that from her yet. THAT's the issue. You probably still think I'm the worst person in the world and deserve to live alone for the rest of my life. That's fine. Honestly, I've felt that way at times. Let's be honest, marriage isn't guaranteed to everyone so those who have one are truly blessed. I just hope you can try and understand where I'm coming from because I myself am still trying to figure things out.

[sweetangel]

actually I was a virgin through and through never kissed never hugged etc. I waiting for my dh.

I seriously just hate how people get discarded because of this though.

[marchmadness]

Fair enough, but wouldn't you agree that someone who knew the difference between right and wrong and has yet to really admit what she did was bad is somewhat of a red flag? To me there's a difference between someone looking back with regret and someone looking back and saying "meh, no big deal."

[Mr. Rkt]

marchmadness, you're not "discarding" anyone. What would sweetangel have you do? Marry someone you do not truly love? You're not even engaged yet, which is good.

Sweetangel, you are completely missing his point (I don't mean to speak for him, but I was once in his shoes, and I understand exactly what he means). He dates women as prospects for marriage. If a dating relationship is not headed toward marriage, then it is frustrating, especially for one who is committed to sexual purity.

He has one standard for sexual purity, and she has another. Note that I said has. It would be different if he could say that she once had a different standard, but now shares his. Then, if he truly loved her, the past really would not be a big deal to him, but her present purity would.

[sweetangel]

sorry but you said you were semi engaged so does that mean that she knows she is engaged or that you are talking marriage with her because I was under that impression.

If I have misunderstood than I am sorry.

Fair enough, but wouldn't you agree that someone who knew the difference between right and wrong and has yet to really admit what she did was bad is somewhat of a red flag? To me there's a difference between someone looking back with regret and someone looking back and saying "meh, no big deal."

I personally think the best thing for you to do is avoid this kind of relationship as it is deal breaker for you and tat is cool I just worry that you may hurt womans feelings for letting it get to semi engaged to break it off.

Anyway I hope you find a lovely christian girl that is a virgin as it is important to you.

[marchmadness]

Anyway I hope you find a lovely christian girl that is a virgin as it is important to you.

I get the feeling the feeling that I've worn out my welcome so I'm going to head out. If the relationship does move forward then I'll return. And in the future sweetangel, you may want to be careful about writing someone off as a close-minded d-bag just because you disagree with a potential decision that hasn't even been made yet. It doesn't feel good being treated like just for asking for some advice and guidance on a situation I've NEVER been in.