No kissing before marriage?

[BigRed28]

No kissing before marriage? Sounds like a bad idea to me - I'd be concerned that one or both partners were not attracted to the other or not interested at all in physical intimacy with someone of the opposite sex.

On the other hand, we've had a couple of people say that's basically what they did ... so I guess it can work out. It is kind of the "opposite" of having full physical relations before marriage.

[hisplaymate]

I kinda think it's a great idea if you can do it, and if the engagement period is short.

To me, kissing is a very very very sensual thing and I can't imagine just keeping it simple. The mouth was made for not only eating and talking, but for sexual pleasure. I can see the wisdom in abstaining.

[LadyP]

I don't know the show at all, but from what I've read in this thread, it sounds like the advice should have been more along the lines of:

Most people have a sex drive. Yours may be stronger, or hers may be stronger. It is possible one of you will not want sex at all - either all the time, or just for a season as time goes on and hormones change.

Most people have emotional needs. Again, yous may be stronger, or hers may be stronger. It is important to respect those needs and try to meet them.

The only way of navigating these needs is through lots of generosity, and lots and lots of communication. So go start talking about it.

--

The problem is not so much the assumptions about who will want what, but that the couple needs to discuss their expectations and strategize some possible solutions.

[zookie]

I just watched the Dugger wedding tonight. I think the advice the dad gave to Josh was very toned down for their TV show. They even beeped out the words "sexual intercourse". They are very modest and feel that sort of thing is private. It's entirely possible that he gave him a much more comprehensive "talk" in private.
I certainly wouldn't want to talk in very much detail about that sort of thing with a camera man and sound man in the room and then for it to be broadcast on TV.
In addition, I thought the advise was good. Listen to her. Make sure she knows she is important to you. It's not all about the physical, it's about the emotional, too.
Reading posts from several of the women on this forum I'd say that is pretty true to life.

z

[Yaaaaay!]

DH and I did this. Our kiss at the altar was our first... my first ever. We're very grateful we did things that way. I have a very high SD and DH does too... it was the right move for us.
It also really brought us together more in every other area of our relationship... and that has really blessed our LMing.

... and for those of you wondering... yes, the wedding night was quite a learning curve... but we didn't mind at all.

[jokerman]

I certainly wouldn't want to talk in very much detail about that sort of thing with a camera man and sound man in the room and then for it to be broadcast on TV.

Yeah but if they're private people why allow a TV show to be made about every aspect of their lives?

[zookie]

I certainly wouldn't want to talk in very much detail about that sort of thing with a camera man and sound man in the room and then for it to be broadcast on TV.

Yeah but if they're private people why allow a TV show to be made about every aspect of their lives?

I said they were very "modest", not "private". I think there is a difference. They wouldn't even allow the cameras in while the mother was getting an ultrasound for her last baby.

[hisplaymate]

DH and I did this. Our kiss at the altar was our first... my first ever. We're very grateful we did things that way. I have a very high SD and DH does too... it was the right move for us.
It also really brought us together more in every other area of our relationship... and that has really blessed our LMing.

That just sounds soooooooo romantic!!!! I'm sure most couldn't imagine denying themselves. I wonder if there's a connection between this choice and having less subsequent sexual problems in the future because you've perhaps put yourself under a deeper protection from God due to honoring him so? I'm not sure anyone could answer that question, but it seems plausible.

[Blue_Pen]

My bride-to-be and I have never kissed. It hasn't been easy, but we want to save our first kiss(es!) for our wedding day. I'm so glad that we have - I know temptations would be much higher if we had.
Our sex drives are still strong... We are really looking forward to getting married...

~Blue Pen

[Tenore Grande]

I'm from Arkansas and actually work with a woman that is a family friend of the Duggars and all of them. It's actually a little sect of people in Northern Arkansas. The kids probably seemed awkward with each other, because they don't let them date. They let them court, but the marriages are all arranged. It's kinda sad actually, while I admire their purity and how they are trying to raise their kids, they are sheltering them terribly. I worry about what's gonna happen to his son and his new wife when they hit the real world.

BTW it's entirely possible that she could give birth again. Something happened early on in her life, where they decided to not ever use birth control. I think they live by how many kids they have is how many kids God wants them to have, but 18!!! It just seems like too much to me. I understand big families, my parents were both in families of 7 and 8 kids, but 18 is huge!

[12CJ-DA]

It may seem a tad extreem, but I consider it more a more reasonable, healthy and moderate response to the hedonism around us than some. All one needs for perspective is Leo Tolstoy. The famous author famously praciced absinance even after marriage. I think he even refrained from showing his wife any affection.

[tattooed chick]

Idk, but somethng about the Duggars just creeps me out. I have not watched the series they have now, but have occasonally watched the specials they have had on them, like when they built there house. I just don't think it's very fair that the older kids are expected to help take care of the younger kids. I'm not saying they shouldn't help AT ALL, but I just don't like how they are EXPECTED to ya know? I just feel sorry for the kids. It's great that they are a close family with morals and love, but just not sure how just 2 parents could have a close connection with all of them. Maybe they do, I don't know them, but it seems to be a stretch.

As far as the not kissing before marriage, I think it's an awesome accomplishment if the couple are both for it, and I admire that kind of selfcontrol

[ForeverHisClay]

My DH and I were together for four years and didn't kiss until our wedding day (this past October). I agree that it is subjective to your own standards and such, but it was really helpful for us because we WERE so attracted to each other. It was very hard, but very worth it. No regrets!!! Now we have a lifetime to enjoy each other in that way .

[christopherjames]

Yeah but if they're private people why allow a TV show to be made about every aspect of their lives?

$$$Cash-Money$$$


Me and my wife didnt kiss till we were engaged, it was hard, but it was worth the wait, I think if we had of started earlier, we would have gotten into trouble

[TroyMaclure]

I don't see anything wrong with kissing before marriage. And perhaps more importantly, I don't think not kissing before marriage is anymore admirable, pure or moral then kissing. It bothers me when this is held out as an "example" for the same reason that I disagree with the suggestion that "very modest" clothing is more noble or admirable then "modest" clothing.

[ForeverHisClay]

Troy, that is just it, there ISN'T anything wrong with kissing, it is a decision a coupl eneeds to make, if they are going to or not. Every couple should set standards going into a relationship, to purpose those standards in their hearts so they don't cross over those boundaries. As long as you can enter into your marriage pure before your spouse and God, AWESOME!!! Kissing or not.

[Mr. Rkt]

Idk, but somethng about the Duggars just creeps me out. I have not watched the series they have now, but have occasonally watched the specials they have had on them, like when they built there house. I just don't think it's very fair that the older kids are expected to help take care of the younger kids. I'm not saying they shouldn't help AT ALL, but I just don't like how they are EXPECTED to ya know? I just feel sorry for the kids. It's great that they are a close family with morals and love, but just not sure how just 2 parents could have a close connection with all of them. Maybe they do, I don't know them, but it seems to be a stretch.

I understand, but I think it is just a cultural reaction. God made many of us capable of producing families that large, and if a couple has the gifts to show that much love and the means to support them (and this family appears to have both), then I can't see the problem.

As for the older children being expected to help take care of the younger ones -- that's probably more common than you realize. It is a form of discipling. The notion that childhood carries on through the teen years was a 20th Century invention, and the last part of that century extended it to age 30 in many ways. It's not natural. For all of history before that, children were gradually treated as adults and given adult responsibilities, under the guidance of an adult, from the age of 12 or 13. In many rural communities, that is still how it is done. It's very rewarding to see a teenager's energy and creativity put to good use in that kind of setting. It's good for them, too. They don't get hobbled with a generational identity; that is, they feel accepted and a part of all of society, and are comfortable with people of any age.

I'm not commenting on the "sect" and "arranged marriage" stuff from earlier in this thread -- that would be worrisome to me, too, but I don't know if it's true in the case of the Duggars. That's the first I heard of it.

Speaking for me -- I was the oldest raised on a farm, I got to explore my teenage interests in that setting, but I was treated pretty much as a man with responsibility from my early teens on, and I had to help with the kids. Years later when we had our first son, I accidentally called him by the name of my youngest brother many, many times, because it would flash back to when I helped to care for him. We weren't all that conservative about dating and such, though. I dated through high school and my young adulthood, including a couple of long term relationships, and I never heard of saving a kiss for marriage -- nor would it have occurred to me to do that. There wasn't a "purity movement" back then -- there was just purity, as taught in the Bible.

[TroyMaclure]

Troy, that is just it, there ISN'T anything wrong with kissing, it is a decision a coupl eneeds to make, if they are going to or not. Every couple should set standards going into a relationship, to purpose those standards in their hearts so they don't cross over those boundaries. As long as you can enter into your marriage pure before your spouse and God, AWESOME!!! Kissing or not.

I understand, and similarly I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with not kissing.

Without pointing fingers I was simply expressing my discomfort at the historical reality and present fact within some communities of the Church that such personal choices become quickly bound up in group expectations or a race to be "Holier than thou". I think of such things as "purity Balls" as an example. Next it is a case of "Purity Balls and not kissing may be fine for others, but I am just be a little more protective of my purity so I will wear a potato sack and Chasity belt."

[pooch]

If I stopped kissing her now she would think that there was something wrong! We know there are boundaries and we will not cross them.

[Assume a Virtue]

I went to the wedding of two friends who did this. The first kiss was actually pretty touching. But they got a bit more.. adventurous as the reception went on. Things were just plain awkward by the time the night was over.

I can understand why some couples might want that level of purity, but for me, I couldn't go from zero physical intimacy to complete physical intimacy in the course of one day. And I definitely couldn't have so many unknowns with someone I'd want to spend the rest of my life with