Living together in same house before marriage

[cjc19]

My fiance and I are considering living together. We have dated for 3 years and been engaged since last November 2007. We are getting married in February 2009. In our current situation we are having financial difficulties, that would be somewhat alleviated by living together (as the cost of rent will be cheaper as well as alleviating the cost and time of commuting between each house each night).

We have not lived together previously nor had sex before marriage, nor do we intend to.

If we do decide to live together we will have separate rooms and definately not sleep together. We are also considering even having a third christian person live with us - this will further act to keep us accountable (ie. a three bedroom share house basically).

We wanted to see what the general opinion is in regards to this? We can not see anything wrong with living in the same house together as long as we act the same as we do now, it is only that the distance between our bedrooms will be closer! Our only concern is not to 'cause our brother to sin' (other christians) and that it may look like we are sleeping together, even if we are not.

We are of the opinion that it is better two persons living with each other and not sleeping together versus two persons living apart but sleeping together. However, in the above situation the first person would be judged more even though the second person is the one sinning (but not being judged).

What do people think about this issue? Is it okay to live together in these circumstances? Your help would be greatly appreciated.

[YesIReallyLoveMyWife]

Why not get married sooner?

[datepalm]

Why not get married sooner?

My thoughts exactly. Why not go ahead and get married?

[cjc19]

We are getting married in February 2009. We were originally going to get married in October this year but delayed due to costs/time constraints.

We are both finishing university in June so February allows us to save a bit more for the wedding.

This wedding date is suitable for both of our parents also, who were not particularly keen on an October date either.

We would not be moving together in order to get to know each other better or to 'test out if each other is the right one' - as I note from previous posts on this topic. We would only be doing so for both ease and cost and time saving.

I hope that answers the previous posts.

[arandom1]

Wow that's a rough one because I have sympathy for both sides of the argument. Resources and money are certainly a big deal and I can't blame you for wanting to be more economical. Having a third person would certainly make me feel better about it, I would be against just you two being there, even with the extra precautions you'd take - it would still look like evil even if you knew it wasn't.

The problem is, even with a third person they wouldn't be home at all times when you were. I had a personal rule to never be alone in a house with my "significant other" unless I knew someone would be coming home soon (like 15-20 minutes and man it caused issues with the girl I didn't marry - it was tough to do and sometimes I gave in). You wouldn't have that kind of guarantee since the third person would have their own life to live too.

I guess on the whole after factoring in those things I would lean against doing it, not because you would be tempted (you sound very stable in that area), but because it would still look awfully like evil.

[cjc19]

Thanks arandom for your post,

Yes, we are not really tempted in that area. There have been numerous times when her or my housemates have been away for short and significant periods and we have remained not tempted by the situation/taken advantage of the situation.

We have also stayed on occasions at each others houses (with the permission of her or my housemates - who are also christian) usually on nights when we have been extremely tired and to drive home at 2am in the morning would be dangerous due to being so tired.

My current concern is that my current house is being sold and my lease is ending in June/July. My finance's lease also ends in November. I do not really want to have the hassle of having to move all of my stuff to another house, and move all of her stuff to another house, and then before marriage have to look for yet another house for each of us and move both our stuff again to a new house. I would rather set up a house now and save the hassle.

Some background also, the rental market in my city is very tight. It took 25 applications to find my current place (with about 50 people visiting each house inspection). So by living apart we have to find 3 places for each of us/both of us within a 6 month time period, as well as each find jobs after university and organisee a wedding, which seems a bit much to have to handle. I would rather just move into 1 place, which would be hard enough to find as it is, live in separate rooms (but have the time to set up a house), and then move into the same room when we get married. The second room could then be used as a guest room or a room if we ever have a first child.

I do agree with you that I don't however want to either tempt others nor make it look like we are doing evil. It just seems that it would be extremely difficult to organise living apart. I also think that christians should not be judgemental and assume we are doing the wrong thing even though we would not be. It seems like the speck versus log in eye judgement.

Let me know what you think after this additional information?

[padsnd]

Few thoughts on this.

This is a difficult situation from the temptations standpoint. I'm sure you will find that being together all the time is very different in that area than simply staying over when it's unsafe to drive home, etc. In addition, there is the aspect of reputation that comes into play. I personally do not believe you should be "worried" about what others think of you, but there are some cases where we put ourselves in a position that makes us look like something is going on that shouldn't be.

I guess I'm a little confused and I know you've mostly answered this question, but why can't you get married sooner. Even a marriage that is a private low/zero cost ceremony (minister and maybe a few family/friends, nice dress/suit not tux/gown, no reception, etc.) with the plan to have a renewing of the vows when everyone else can be there? If family and friends cannot understand that it makes sense for the reasons you've given to get married now, they have a problem, not you, and you probably shouldn't allow them to impose the "relationship" they have on you because they are abusing it.

[cjc19]

Thanks padnsd for your post,

Some further information (sorry, i should have been more specific in my first post!) re the wedding.

I am marrying a girl of korean heritage. It is usual that the parents have to invite pretty much everyone they know (they belong to a big korean church) otherwise it is pretty offensive in korean culture. Also you marry the family pretty much and not just the bride so it is important to ensure obedience to parents.

At the same time we would like our friends and family to celebrate our wedding with us. As my mother has 9 bro/sisters there is also quite a lot of family on my side. We also have quite a lot of church friends where we live. From my understanding I do not want to offend my fiances parents nor my parents. Also, my fiance is keen of having a celebration with all friends/family. She would not be keen on having a wedding with just immediate family (nor is it in the culture to do so).

So our wedding reception would be about 200 people and perhaps up to 300 might come to our wedding ceremony at the church. So, this is part of the reason as the expense of the wedding and time to organise while looking for jobs/new house as towhy we moved the wedding from Oct 2008 to Feb 2009.

Thanks for your comments

[Voveo Uxor]

My suggestion would be to go ahead and get the apartment, but have only one of you move in.

The other of you should put a call out to friends, church members, family, etc. and see if anyone has a room that you could rent for just a few months until the wedding. You could still move most of your things into the apartment, and only keep your daily essentials there in the family's room where you're sleeping.

Renting a room in a private home wouldn't be nearly as expensive as getting a whole separate apartment, and I am sure there are plenty of people at your church who would applaud your devotion to purity, and who would be willing to share their home with you for a few months.

Another option is to advertise in the paper. My husband did that, a few months before we were married, and he had a very nice single dad answer his advert and rent him a bedroom with kitchen and laundry privileges for only $50 a week. Pray about it, and then start asking, and I'll bet something will turn up.

Even if you know you will remain pure until you get married, in my mind it's still "playing house." I think sharing a household with your beloved, cooking together, figuring out who uses the bathroom first, and all that sort of thing -- those are privileges, and I think they are a wonderful part of marriage that should be reserved for marriage. Is it a sin to do all that before you're married? Of course not. But it's just a lot more special if you keep all of that unifying stuff until after you're unified, if you know what I mean. The "appearance of evil" thing in the Bible is a mis-translation, and I don't think you need to be worrying about what others will think... but it's simply a better idea all around not to share a house before you're married. It's like pretending something that isn't real yet.

[datepalm]

cjc19,

It sounds like your FFIL and FMIL are quite traditional and accustomed to doing things the "proper way". How will they feel about the "living together but not 'living together' arrangement"?

Also, although you're not having trouble with temptation now, it's possible, if you're in the same house, spending more and more time together as the day gets closer, that temptation will put in an appearance. You wouldn't be the first couple who thought it couldn't happen to them, only to be caught off guard.

Datepalm

P.S. I know DH and I would be willing to do what Voveo suggested for someone in our church who was in your situation.

[cjc19]

Thanks Voveo Uxor for the suggestion. I will have a think about that idea. Perhaps I could find a 2 bedroom place from July and find a willing person to sublease with me for 7 months (?) (and then they move out in January). It would be unaffordable to live in an apartment by myself.

I'm sure my fiance could then stay with someone after November from church for a couple of months and I could set up our future house in my separate place in the meantime (i.e. find a housemate that has no furnitre of their own!). (as you suggested)

Either way, I will have to pray about it and I am sure that things will work out.

I have gathered so far that the general consensus is that we should not move in together (despite us not doing anything wrong or that we would not do anything wrong). I am leaning towards that we should therefore not live together. I would appreciate hearing more peoples' thoughts on these issues however.

However, I would hope that 'christians in general' would be less judgmental of such situations as I feel that it can be a bit judgemental and not open to people coming and feeling welcome at churches, etc. (if you get my drift!).

I would be also interested on hearing peoples thoughts on christians who live in the same university residential college who start to go out with one another. Could this be considered "living together" and therefore be wrong? (I see no difference between a house of 3 people versus a 'house' of say 100 people. I would be interested on people's thoughts).

[cjc19]

Hi datepalm,

On your comments about our families. My family would not care either way as I come from an 'anglo' non-christian background (they lived together before marriage for 6 years and have been happily married for 27 or so years).

Her parents I thought were of the view that we should not live together. They always ensure that we have separate rooms when we visit them. In fact, when we first started going out, I stayed in a separate hotel. However, to my fiance and my surprise we both just recently found out that they in fact lived together before marriage (despite christain background and korean heritage against such). My fiance's father's parents pretty much told/ordered my fiance's mother to come live at their house with my fiance's father (before they got married). I understand that my fiance's grandmother told my fiance's mother that he (my fiance's father) was lonely and that she should come and live with them. I am not sure whether they slept in the same room together or had sex before marriage. They have similarly been married happily about 30 years.

My fiance recently talked to her parents about living together before marriage and they seem to now support that we can live together, despite what I had previously thought and initial strictness. This is part of the reason that, given our situation, we have recently been thinking that living together before marriage might be okay. I would definately not have done so one month ago when I thought that her parents were against the idea.

But although we have definate/some support from our parents for such living together (this may be because they themselves both lived together), we are not of the view that we necessarily should live together (see my previously noted concerns).

On your comments on temptation I do not think that living together would be any more tempting. We pretty much spend the whole day together as it is at the moment, cook and clean with each other but then I usually leave her house around 12 at night to go sleep, before returning to her house the next day. We also shop together for food and share money and a car. I would say we are pretty much doing all a married couple would do together except sleep with each other at night time. We have also shared beds together when on holidays with no temptation at all because we knowour set boundaries and are diligent in maintaining self-control (eg. when travelling to go to my grandfather's 80th birthday when we booked a hotel to stay in). We have also stayed at our aunts'uncles houses on my side in one double bed as they had set up a double bed for us in advance and we did not want to offend their hospiality (all my relatives are non-christian).

So I do doubt that it would be more tempting although I acknowledge your concerns. My main concern was not about temptation but about what others on the outside would think of us living together (reputation/christian witness) and my concern not to tempt others into sin.

eg. even if I know that it is okay to eat meat, if it causes my brother to sin and hinders them receiving the gospel I will not eat meat for their sake

[LadyP]

I would be also interested on hearing peoples thoughts on christians who live in the same university residential college who start to go out with one another. Could this be considered "living together" and therefore be wrong? (I see no difference between a house of 3 people versus a 'house' of say 100 people. I would be interested on people's thoughts).

You really see no difference? The 90+ people keeping tabs on you doesn't make a difference? The different bathrooms in different parts of the building? The hallways between your rooms which are public places and may contain anyone in the house and anyone visiting anyone in the house? That's a big difference. When I lived in my dorm, I always felt like the hallways were public places and not my house at all - it was mentally more like a gated community than a house.

By the way...are you guys actually attracted to each other? I mean, I admire your constraint, but I'd be worried about the future sex lives of a couple who can share a bed without a problem.

[cinnamonsticks]

On the topic of temptation, although right now your temptation is low, if it should begin to increase as your wedding approaches (which happens a lot) at that point, living together will make it more difficult.

Having said that, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with living in the same house before marriage, but know that Christians will most certainly judge you for it. And I agree with Voveo that you do have other options so I wouldn't give up on those just yet. Moving in together should be a last resort, IMO.

[cjc19]

I would be also interested on hearing peoples thoughts on christians who live in the same university residential college who start to go out with one another. Could this be considered "living together" and therefore be wrong? (I see no difference between a house of 3 people versus a 'house' of say 100 people. I would be interested on people's thoughts).

You really see no difference? The 90+ people keeping tabs on you doesn't make a difference? The different bathrooms in different parts of the building? The hallways between your rooms which are public places and may contain anyone in the house and anyone visiting anyone in the house? That's a big difference. When I lived in my dorm, I always felt like the hallways were public places and not my house at all - it was mentally more like a gated community than a house.

By the way...are you guys actually attracted to each other? I mean, I admire your constraint, but I'd be worried about the future sex lives of a couple who can share a bed without a problem.

Thanks for your post LadyP. I see no difference as in a residential college you are living in separate rooms, but these rooms could be right next to each other and it would be pretty easy to sneak into one another's rooms. In a house, you are in separate bedrooms as well, which could also be next to each other. In both situations the same constraint would need to be applied. The only difference is the less people you live with the less you are in the public eye and therefore the more it might be expected you could be doing something wrong (even though you could do something wrong in both situations or even in situations where you are not living with each other). The only difference I can see between the two is the external perception that something could be going on.

We have only slept on the same bed in situations where we would not offend or tempt anyone else by staying in the same place or where it was at my relatives houses (who are non-christian) where they have a guest bedroom set up for us to stay when visiting. We are indeed attracted to each other, but I do not see what the difficulty is with maintaining constraint. Simply, we know that it is not right to have sex before marriage or do any other things leading up to sex so we just don't do it. It has only been a few occasions where we have been in the situation of sharing the same bed so it is not that hard to maintain contraint in these fews times (i.e. 3 nights in a year). On the other hand, if we were to sleep on the same bed on a regular basis this would indeed be tempting. So we would definately avoiding doing so. If I have ever slept over her house I have normally slept on a matress in the loungeroom with the permission of her housemates (who trust us).

So I am definately attracted to my fiance! But it is not that hard to maintain contraint on a few occasions when all you do is lie down on a mattress to sleep. This may be different for other couples but not that difficult for us (although, as I said, if it was a regular occurence there might be a temptation problem). I see no problems with sexual attractiveness after marriage when: (a) we know it is okay to have sex; (b) we share the same matress for more then just sleep; (c) we share the same room on a regular basis.

[hazeleyes24]

I know waiting can be a really difficult thing to do, but wouldn't it be so
nice when you could live together right after you were married without the worry that something could happen? Everyone would be happy. Is it so important you live together first? I just think it would be way too tempting!

[blueeyes]

I'm just chiming in to give a dissenting opinion.

My husband and I lived in an apartment together while engaged. He had his own bedroom and bath and we did not have sex until our wedding night.

My mother however, gave me constant grief about it.

Anyone who knows you well will know that you are not sleeping together.
Anyone who doesn't know you well probably already assumes you are sleeping together unless you've told them otherwise. (We dated for 7 years and people - even my sister- could not believe that we hadn't had sex. Even before we shared an apartment. Some people just assume you are going to jump into bed if you've been together for any substantial period of time)

My advice to you: Follow your conscience. If your heart feels guilty about this then don't do it.

The only thing that may change by living together, is that it may solidify in the minds of those who wonder whether you're fooling around that you really are.

We were very open about our apartment and about not sleeping together. So we left very little doubt to anyone who worked with, went to school with or went to church with us about our intentions.


add: And we weren't any more tempted to sleep together while living together than before. Once you've made your mind to stay pure until your wedding and you've been in situations where you were tempted, but stayed true, then you don't have the same temptations as before.
It's not like we raging hormonal teenagers anymore. We had decided to not do it, so we didn't do it. Making out on the couch and then going to sleep in separate bedrooms across the apartment wasn't any more difficult than making out on the couch at his place and then pulling myself away to go home.

[hazeleyes24]

And we weren't any more tempted to sleep together while living together than before. Once you've made your mind to stay pure until your wedding and you've been in situations where you were tempted, but stayed true, then you don't have the same temptations as before.

I think that's awesome that you two were both wise and strong enough to stay pure until after your wedding! Yet I don't think it's right to say living together won't make a difference in temptation level. You're alone...together. I'm just saying that for you, blue eyes, it was not an issue, but for some it could be.

[cjc19]

After reading everyone's posts and considering our options we have decided that it would be best not to live together before marriage.

This is not due to the reason that it would be tempting as we believe it would not be in our situation. Also, we do not believe it to be wrong to live together before marriage (as long as there is no sexual activity).

However, we will not do so on the basis that:
- it would look bad and may hurt our reputations
- it may hurt reputations of others around us (eg. friends and family) whose friends might not have the same understanding of the situation
- it may be a bad christian witness
- we should not tempt others in our situation to live together, who may be more weak in the flesh then us, and may be tempted by such situations

Also, even though closer friends would know that we are not having sex living in the same apartment, other friends might automatically assume that we are having sex.

I am of the opinion that it is easy to fall in to temptation and sin no matter what your situation, whether you are living apart, living in a residential college, living in a share house, living with parents or living with your partner. If you can avoid temptation when living apart (as blueeyes said), you can avoid temptation living together just as easily. If you are determined that you will not have sex before marriage it should not matter your situation. You should not need others around you to 'keep you in line'. It should be a conscious choice of the heart and be consistent (not have sex) whether there are people around you or not. If you only act properly when others are around I would question whether it is a choice of the heart to not engage in sex before marriage or an outward 'not trying to sully reputation and maintain the high ground among other christians'.

I do not think that people should automatically judge others, however, that live together by automatically assuming they are sleeping together. It is sad that christians do this without seeking out the facts. I note a person I knew at church who was judging a couple for living together but who actively engaged in sleeping with his girlfriend who he did not live with. This is hypocrisy in my opinion.

I would not feel guilty about living together for the sake of living together. However, I would feel guilty for allowing others to think we were sleeping together or to cause others to sin.

I also understand others may be additionally more tempted by living together before marriage, in addition to concerns like ours such as reputation and tempting others into sin. In our situation we would not be more tempted, but others may well be so. Such persons are probably those who obviously can control themselves when others around but not in private when alone with their partner. So avoiding living alone together or avoiding extended moments of alone time may be suitable for such couples.

However, I beleive that one who is determined not to have sex before marriage should be able to control themselves whether in public or in private. If it is a genuine belief, and not just looking 'christian' and 'righteous' in front of others, then such a belief should play itself out in private when there is just you, your partner and GOD (who is there at every moment). You should not need others around to keep you under control, all that should be needed is the fear of God.

Postscript: I would be concerned even if one were not tempted and even if it would not tempt others that obedience to parents should be maintained (except where it conflicts with God's will). Thus, if one or both parents are concerned about you living together you should not do so. This is especially if your parents are not christian as you should provide a good witness to them and not a conflicting witness of hypocrisy.

On a personal note, I have decided that the suggestion to set up an apartment for both of us to live in after marriage would be a good idea, but for only me to move in there before marriage (probably with another christian male). My fiance could then move in after marriage, but keep most of her non-essential and shared property at the apartment I use in the meantime.

Although this is not 100% efficient option (i.e. each moving once only to a shared apartment) it does reduce my moves to 1 instead of 2 (although her amount of moves would still be the same) if we were to have both moved into separate apartments and then moved into a different marriage apartment (where 2 moves each).

[SmallTownClown]

Greetings, cjc19:

You have arrived at the proper resolution. I was just about to post and make several of the points that you yourself made.

this is one of the few areas of christian living where I think our behavior can cause others to stumble. While you and your intended may have that necessary control to stay chaste 'till marriage, others viewing your living arrangements may not have such resolve.

This is also one of my pet peeves. I do not understand the desire to make a decision to wed and then place the ceremony so far into the future that the time in between becomes one of masochistic abuse.

I wish you two well, and I think you'll do well if this is representative of your desires over all.

God Bless & Good Providence,
stc