SubQ and traveling questions

Low testosterone issues, impacts on health & marriage, treatments, etc.
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SeekingChange
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SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SeekingChange » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:59 pm

Saturday was my husband's first day of TRT. He is taking HCG along with testosterone (subQ). He did two different injections although he would really like to combine the two doses for one injection. A few questions....

Has anyone combined your HCG and T to do one injection? If so, do you have any tips? Is there one that works better to draw in the syringe first over the other? What about if some of one med mixes with the other, will that do harm?

Also, his first injection was the HCG (his left side of the belly), and he did say that it wasn't near as bad as he anticipated. Then on the other side, he did the T. He said that one hurt a lot more...which I think he poked himself slower on that one. He felt a burning/stinging for several hours afterwards, is that "normal"? It also seemed like he had red blotches (a rash???) a couple of inches around the injection sight later that evening (he injected around 11 am).... has anyone experienced anything like that? I figured we would see if he has a similar experience on Tuesday, his next dose, just in case there was something unrelated going on or he just did something wrong, and if we notice the same thing, we'll give Defy a call.

Has anyone ever skipped a dose of HCG while traveling? If so, were there any issues? Because it has to stay refrigerated, it could make our traveling that is coming up (flying/hotel/cruise) much more complicated and we are hoping he could just miss his mid-week dose.

While traveling, is it possible to put a dose of the T in the (insulin) syringe and travel that way, rather than having to take the whole vial?

And just for kicks... how quick can a dose of T kick in and give sexual benefit? Is it possible to see a benefit within the first day or is that just a placebo effect?
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby OldMarriedLady » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:06 pm

SeekingChange wrote:While traveling, is it possible to put a dose of the T in the (insulin) syringe and travel that way, rather than having to take the whole vial?

Yes, my DH does this.
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SeekingChange » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:16 pm

This may sound stupid, but does changing elevations have an effect on it if we do that? We don't want to show up and have 1/2 his dose gone because it leaked out or something crazy like that. We are going from high elevation, to air travel, to sea level, just in case that makes a difference.
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SquarePants » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:30 pm

I’ve never tried to mix the 2 in the same syringe. The HCG is a thin, water-based mixture, and the T is a thick oil based mixture. It doesn’t seem practical, though maybe some have done it.

When I travel, I will often just skip the HCG if it’s a short trip. I inject every other day, so I don’t really notice if i’m a day late or miss one completely.

If i’m flying, i’ll bring the vial with me as a carry on, and send the syringes with the checked luggage. I don’t trust the TSA or the baggage handlers not to steal it. I’ve packed my HCG with an ice pack in an insulated container (collapsible lunch box).

Burning: I’m less likely to experience burning if I inject between the 10 to 2 o’clock positions around the belly button. With the other areas, it’s hit or miss. I THINK that i’m less likely to experience burning if I inject at a 45 degree angle in those areas.

There’s also the good luck bad luck of whether you happen to inject near a nerve ending. I often don’t feel anything. Sometimes, even with the tiny HCG needle, it feels like a nail! I just pull out and try someplace else.

I seem to recall feeling mild effects (more energy, improved mood, muscle tone) within a couple of days, but it took a week or two to feel the full effect.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby ledgemoor » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:29 pm

Squarepants: Would IM avoid the burning/itching/redness that the OP's husband experienced?

SeekingChange: I also routinely preload my IM syringes and put it in my checked baggage when flying. I leave plenty of air in it and have never had any testosterone leak out. An airliner is pressurized to the equivalent of about 6000' elevation -- not a huge change in pressure. To put that in perspective, you would get only three times the pressure change you might get from normal weather changes from just sitting on your dresser at home.
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SquarePants » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:05 pm

I know of 2 people who choose intramuscular injections over subcutaneous injections for that reason. I think that some people are more sensitive than others to the oil that is mixed with the testosterone. Some pharmaceuticals use cotton seed oil, and others use grapeseed oil. I think that another oil is sometimes used. You may check with your doctor to see if he recommends trying another brand that uses a different oil. For me, I do fine if I follow the steps that I mentioned earlier. If I inject deep into the fat (and it stays in the fat) it’s fine. It burns slightly if it pools up near the skin.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby Hoosier52 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:25 pm

SeekingChange wrote:Has anyone combined your HCG and T to do one injection? If so, do you have any tips? Is there one that works better to draw in the syringe first over the other? What about if some of one med mixes with the other, will that do harm?

From my reading, this is a common practice. It does not hurt to combine the two. ExcelMale is the place to ask on how to best do it.

SeekingChange wrote:It also seemed like he had red blotches (a rash???) a couple of inches around the injection sight later that evening (he injected around 11 am).... has anyone experienced anything like that?

The bumps and itchy rash are quite common. I had them BAD when I first started. I changed from cottonseed oil base to grapeseed oil and that helped. Some are allergic to cottonseed. Defy can change that for you. Dr. Saya told me to hold my thumb hard on the injection site for 1 minute after injecting. That helped a lot. I still get some itch sometimes, but barely noticeable.

SeekingChange wrote:Has anyone ever skipped a dose of HCG while traveling? If so, were there any issues?

It won't hurt to skip a dose. Remember why it's prescribed...

SeekingChange wrote:While traveling, is it possible to put a dose of the T in the (insulin) syringe and travel that way, rather than having to take the whole vial?

Many do this. I never have. The vial is small and I just take it, my syringes and alcohol wipes with me.

SeekingChange wrote:And just for kicks... how quick can a dose of T kick in and give sexual benefit? Is it possible to see a benefit within the first day or is that just a placebo effect?

As I've said before, my most immediate change was in my energy and mood. Thinking back, I believe there was a placebo benefit regarding sex. So much of intimacy is psychological. When my T hit 1500 I felt like Superman in every way. Unfortunately, they cut me back. If the T didn't raise my HCT and PSA, I'd love to go back to that level.

I'm glad to hear your DH has started TRT. Hopefully, he'll receive all of the positive benefits it can bring.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby tentsofpurple » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:50 am

My dh never did HCG and T at the same time, he did came off the T and used the HCG to get his sperm count back so we could conceive our fourth child and then went back on the Testosterone afterward (our insurance doesn't cover HCG and its insanely expensive so we had to ration our use) so I have no advice on mixing the two. He did the HCG in the insulin needle in his stomach and it was painless. The T he does intramuscularly (I give him the shot in his butt) and sometimes it burns more than others (he thinks its related to not waiting long enough for the area I wiped with the alcohol wipe to dry as he's had the same sensation with his allergy shots when the nurse does it immediately without letting the area dry too). He also occasionally gets a bruised feeling in his muscle that lasts a day or two but he's never had a rash or itching.

I don't think a missed dose of HCG would be the end of the world, as long as he's still getting the testosterone. When we travel I don't pre-load the syringes but bring the vials, needles, alcohol wipes, etc. Partially I was afraid of it leaking (which doesn't sound like its an issue based on a few other people here) but I was also worried that our luggage was ever searched there would be concern over what was in the syringe and if we had a valid prescription for it. So if you do that I'd just make sure to bring the box the vial came in with the prescription label in case there are any questions.

I feel like we saw a pretty quick initial sexual benefit within the first week the quality of erection was much better (amazing actually) and his interest/libido spiked as well. After two weeks though it waned and he was right back to how he felt before getting the testosterone (including tiredness and apathy) but his doctor expected that (they did blood work and his levels were back to what they were before) they explained that after receiving testosterone for a period of time the body thinks it has a sufficient supply and stops making any on its own which causes a dip (but that may not happen if he is taking HCG as well) they increased his levels and within a few weeks he was back up and all his symptoms were better again. It really didn't take very long for us to see good side effects, not the months that some people talk about.

After a while of being on weekly injections he asked his doctor to switch to twice a week though because he could definitely feel himself getting "low by day 6/7. The last day before his injection and the day he was due were miserable (for both of us) and he's much more steady and doesn't get the lows with doing it twice a week .
Last edited by tentsofpurple on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby Hoosier52 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:18 am

How to Use HCG with Testosterone To Preserve Fertility, Libido and Testicle Size

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXoBb6mkys

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:36 am

TentsOfPurple wrote:The T he does intramuscularly (I give him the shot in his butt) and sometimes it burns more than others (he thinks its related to not waiting long enough for the area I wiped with the alcohol wipe to dry as he's had the same sensation with his allergy shots when the nurse does it immediately without letting the area dry too).
FWIW, I don't wipe with alcohol. Not recommending this, but I don't. My doctor said something to the effect of "you're supposed to wipe the injection site with alcohol, but you have an immune system", so I never bothered.

The alcohol should dry fairly quickly. If you keep a hair dryer by your bed like DW does, hit it with that. Or blow on it :D.

He also occasionally gets a bruised feeling in his muscle that lasts a day or two
I have never had that happen. What gauge needle is he using? I use 25ga x 1". I tried SubQ for a few weeks and if I went too deep, the site would bruise.
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby tentsofpurple » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:29 am

ledgemoor wrote:The alcohol should dry fairly quickly. If you keep a hair dryer by your bed like DW does, hit it with that. Or blow on it :D.

I do blow on it but sometimes we are in a rush and I probably don't blow as long as needed. We use 25x1" to inject IM too, he doesn't actually get a bruise just a tenderness at the injection site that feels like a bruise. Its not often that it happens and not enough to really bother him. The benefits definitely outweigh the occasional discomfort.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby Hoosier52 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:50 am

When I did IM in the thigh, it bruised and was very tender and sore for a week or more. Same for in the hip. When I switched to SubQ the bumps were not as bad or sore. IM wasn't for me. I use 29 guage 5/16 insulin syringes from Walgreen's. A very light sting if anything at all.

I use alcohol wipes and just fan the skin with my hand until I no longer feel the coolness of the alcohol.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Thank you all, I am passing all this information along to him.

To be clear, at this point, he had no itching.
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby be64 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:06 pm

I inject sub q into my butt fat. There is very little discomfort.
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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SeekingChange » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:31 am

A video we watched on how to give yourself subq, mentioned doing it within a 5 inch radius of the belly button.... my husband is wondering if it would be okay to go more to the side where it is easier to pinch more skin/fat?

I know that tenderness can be common, he is very tender where he gave himself the last injection, is there anything one can do to help with that and help eliminate it?

It seems that his body has responded to the meds, whether it's the T or HCG or both, very quickly, at least sexually. Is it common or does it show he is taking too much T for him to get a spontaneous erection for no reason at all.... like while out eating icecream with the kids?

Now, I need to work at changing my own mindset again. :wink: <sigh> life.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: RE: Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby GraceAbounds » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:15 am

DH has the same issue... he recently went to the Dr... complained about the same and was told, "that's just the way it is" or rather "you can expect that".

Ugh!

After listening to the YouTube that was previously posted, I'm concerned about his use of testosterone cypionate for the long-term, especially without the added HCG. I don't know. I would just rather another means to accomplish increased testosterone. Besides, his PSA lab is increased as a result so... two prostate biopsies have already been done--both came back as no cancer.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby tentsofpurple » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:40 am

I had to inject insulin subcutaneously during my last pregnancy and the way the paperwork showed to do it was with the "5" radius around belly button method". Unsurprisingly when pregnant there was no loose fat around my very pregnant belly, I had to do it in my side (the "love handle area") and it was painless there. That's where we did dh's HCG and it never bothered him either. Dh definitely started getting more erections, especially in the morning which he hadn't been having for quite a while. I don't know if it happened randomly but I wouldn't be too worried. Is he scheduled for repeat blood work to measure his levels? I think initially dh had blood work at 2 weeks and then again at 3 months and now he gets it every six months.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby Hoosier52 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:51 pm

Some use the top of the arm like a normal injection. Some use an area on the side of the hip. I've read about some using the "love handles." I've used my thigh but sopped because it was always very sore and painful afterwards - for days. I use the area around the navel for HCG and the hip for T.

I think the only places you need to avoid are place where you could more easily hit a vein like the outer thigh.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:29 am

Does Defy do anything for referrals? :wink:

It is amazing when one is willing to open up, how others will come out of the woodwork with their own similar issues. My husband has passed on information to three individuals, from three different encounters, in one week, because they wanted to look into getting help. All were "so glad [he] was open and shared [his problems] with [them]."
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: SubQ and traveling questions

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:43 pm

SeekingChange wrote:Does Defy do anything for referrals?

If they give Defy your name, Defy will give you a $25 credit for each one. I just found that out this AM during my consult.


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