Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Low testosterone issues, impacts on health & marriage, treatments, etc.
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be64
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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby be64 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:09 pm

I never understand it when men say their doctor says their insurance won't pay for TRT because their testosterone isn't low enough. I think it's a lie. I think the doctor is using the insurance company as an excuse to not treat the patient. I realize that some procedures such as an MRI need pre approval and justification, and some prescription medications are not covered such as ED drugs and experimental drugs but I see no reason why an insurance company wouldn't pay for a testosterone prescription. It's not expensive and I really can't believe that the doctor is going to tell the insurance company what the patients testosterone level is and ask for approval for treatment. It's the doctor who determines necessity not the insurance company. I'm sure doctors don't rely on insurance company approval to prescribe an antibiotic or anti depressant. They just diagnose the condition and prescribe treatment then the insurance pays. I would think all a doctor would have to do is give a diagnosis of hypogonadism and not give test results. As for myself I was diagnosed with hyopgonadotrophic hypogonadism. Meaning my pituitary gland was not sending out a strong enough signal.
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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby toomany » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:13 pm

In my case I am getting TRT with pellets. The various insurance providers my doctor deals with all require annual re-authorization. Because that can take months I usually end up having to get a shot or two to keep my level up before the re-authorization goes through.

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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby be64 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:35 pm

I suspect that pellets are a more expensive form of TRT like Androgel which is incredibly expensive. Generic testosterone cypionate can be purchased for around $85 per 10ml 200mg/ml vial. This would last most men three to four months so even if it was out of pocket it would only cost about $30 per month. Cheaper than a good multi vitimin. With insurance my cost is $10 per month. That is with self injection and does not include syringes which don't cost a lot.
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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby GaryB » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:27 pm

Going to see a urologist Friday afternoon. As a whim, I took advantage of the low cost tests from the online group posted on TMB multiple times. Once the results were back, I called my PCP who recommended seeing a urologist for low testosterone/Hypogonadism.

Age: 55 yr 8 mo
Time: 08:44am
TT: 327 ng/dL
Free T: 5.9 pg/mL

No severe symptoms, but maybe some loss of muscle mass, not nearly as energetic & sex no longer a frequent thought. Dropping the extra 15-20 lbs seems to be a lot more difficult than it was 5 years ago.

I still play basketball weekly, referee youth soccer in the spring/fall weekly, cycle & cycle (weather permitting).

Will celebrate our 35 yr anniversary later this month and generally with adequate simulation I've never experienced any ED.



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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby Unfulfilled » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:39 pm

be64, I agree with you. I think the Dr just doesn't want to deal with it or does feel that it isn't low enough yet.

The fact I sent him (the doctor) an email last week asking about getting retested and I have not gotten a response means a) he is on vacation or out of the office and given the holidays that is reasonable since he usually is very quick to respond or B) it is in fact that he doesnt want to deal with this so he ignores it.

He is otherwise a great doctor. But when I asked him about testing or why I was not tested for estriodol, he said he has found that it it not important in treating men with low T. Which is a red flag.

Dealing with HMO's and just seeing other doctors is a pain. So o was at least hoping to get insurance covered tests and if he still resists HRT, then I coild use those test results to send to other places.

Maybe I should call Defy and see specifically what tests and things they need so I can get all that ground work covered.
Last edited by Unfulfilled on Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hoosier52
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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:48 pm

^^^ Call Defy. Your doc is ignorant when it comes to TRT. You're wasting your money and potentially damaging your health. I started with Defy about 6 months again and totally pleased. Dr. Saya may be the best TRT doctor in the country. Certainly one of the best.

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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby The Twit » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:46 am

Interesting discussion about the doctor and the insurance. I have learned a few things from the way "the system" works based on my wife and a few friends. I have learned that the first response by the insurance company is - "Is your medical problem life threatening?" Next "Is your problem affecting your ability to work?" And with that is the "How much does it affect your ability to work?" If you can put in a normal 8 hour day and be productive then what are you worried about. They look at anything related to sexual function only as a lifestyle issue or a minor issue. This is why if they can pinpoint the problem to diabetes then we now have a life threatening problem. Just look at all of the controversy over Viagra when it first came out (not just in medical circles but also in church circles). So unless a doctor can show that the low T is a life threatening issue they will not take it seriously. Thus a person does have to go to specialists, who are looked at by some other professionals as quacks or film-flam artists.

I know that if I asked for a complete T test with my doctor, questions would be raised and the HMO, owned by the same group that employees the doctor, would balk at paying for the tests unless it was life threatening or a normal preventative thing that is checked out because there is no clear evidence of direct correlation between low T and other health issue other than lifestyle inchonvieneces.

Now this brings in another question that I know would come up in the Twit family and other families. We do know based on the symptoms we may have lower T than we should. But if we were to get tested and gain a prescription for T replacement We know that there would be complaints about the cost. (I hear my wife complaining about the costs of getting a Estring just because of discomfort having sex and then comes the discussion - Is sex really worth it?)

As far as some people are concerned it is perfectly normal for men to have a drop in T and it is normal for men to stop performing. Just like in women go into menopause so do men. In fact it is a blessing to a woman when the man stops performing so he will not be hounding the wife for more sex. Thus, the cost to boost the T would not be acceptable. Sex is not a high priority, it happens when it happens, and when things stop working then why mess around with what nature is doing. Some of my observations are based on discussions started when the group I am with see or hear a Vigra, Cialas, or other ED drug ad along with some of the ads for increasing T, some people in the family find those ads to be highly objectionable and a way to glorify sex beyond what is meant for, a certain time in life when a couple is to be fertile and have children. These same people hate all of the feminine hygiene product ads. I remember a discussion about when a local school district's health plan started to include as part of their drug plan, Viagra and other ED medications. I heard on both on the radio and at church the discussion was how if men really want to continue to have sex then why should we pay for it with our tax dollars. Let them pay for it out of their own pocket. And then when there were issues with those products killing men when used some of the people were having the see I told you so, gloating attitude. The same attitude as they have now when they hear about all of the bad things happening to men who have been given T replacement.

So remembering the fight when men were first trying to get ED taken care of, I can see the same push back for T therapy. Is getting the T elevated for better sex really worth it? Are the effects with low T really that bad? What are the real cost to benefit ratios. Fortunately there are those out there fighting back showing how a happy man is a more productive man. But there are those out there that do not want men to be productive for social/political reasons.

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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby Unfulfilled » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:50 pm

I agree that T levels do decline with age. But the stupid "NORMAL" ranges are NOT indexed or adjusted for the persons age. They give the same range for a 20 year old man as well as an 8o year old man.

Of course what levels a 20 year old man should be at are massively different than what an 80 year old man is. However anDr only sees that. 40 year old man say is still within that bogus massively wide range and tells the patient that they are "normal". Yet he is only 40 but if he has the levels that are expected for an 80 year old that is FAR from normal.

This is the conundrum I find myself in. I'm 50 but have the levels expected of a 60 year old man. But because "in range" I am considered "normal". So I have to live with the other symptoms of and have a body respond as if I were 10 years older than I actually am. How is that "normal"?

There is also a problem that testosterone is ONLY related or a benefit to sexual function. That is NOT true. There are a LOT of other negative health effects that are the result of low T. Poor sexual function is just one of them.

I also think there is a problem with low T in women. But because it is viewed that testosterone is only a male hormone it is dismissed completely. The FACT is the women normall have TEN times more testosterone in their blood than they do estrogen. Granted it is far less than men's T levels. But the fact that there is TEN times the volume of T in women than estrogen should I think tell you two things . First is how extremely powerful effect estrogen has in very small volume. It is really powerful stuff, and a small imbalance of estrogen can and does have a huge effect of the health and symptoms of a woman. Secondly the fact that there is a large amount of T in women, shows the importance that T plays in a woman. And it's balance in a women's blood should NOT simply be ignored which is what is happening currently.

The fact that there is no FDA approved protocol to treat women with T replacement is a huge indication of just how ignored T levels in women is in our "health care" industry.

I think Twit makes an interesting broad point. "They" only seem to care about you loving and being able to work and pay taxes. Keep you hewl By enough to stay alive and pay taxes and that's all they need. Anything beyond the worker robot they could care less about the quality of life. I'm not saying imdicidualmdo tors don't care. I'm pointing at regulators, the government and bean counters at insurance companies. Let's face it. Insurance companies are out to make money. And they only make money. Y collecting more in premiums than they pay out in claims. So the bottom line is that they make more money with the less they pay out. So they have a vested and biased interest to deny as much as possible. That's just "good" business.

But when that results in a person only getting enough dosagemof a medicine to allow you to function, but not get fully well. Or not get medicne say HRT, to allow you to be completely well because you are already just getting by, well it just stinks!

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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby be64 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:51 pm

The Twit wrote:Is getting the T elevated for better sex really worth it? Are the effects with low T really that bad?

The answer to both questions is yes.

At 52 I'm having the best sex of my life by far. Sex when I was younger isn't even close to what I'm experiencing now. I wouldn't trade that for ED and anorgasmia and it's well worth the ten dollars per month that it costs for test injections. ED drugs are well worth what I pay for them as well. I am certainly willing to trade the price of two movie tickets with popcorn and pop for sixteen nights of fabulous sex per month. Like I said in an earlier post, testosterone cypionate is cheap with insurance and still affordable even without insurance.

Testosterone isn't all about sex. Testosterone benefits many systems of your body. In the long run it will be a lot cheaper to maintain healthy testosterone levels than pay the price of poor health due to low testosterone.

In my view any man who would willing give up on having sex doesn't know what great sex is like. I'm astounded whenever any man says sex isn't important. Sex is one of the most important aspects of my life and its not one sided, my wife likes it also though she'd be satisfied with only a couple times a week.

Unfulfilled, I believe the level every man should be aiming for is the testosterone level of a healthy man in his twenties. There is no benefit to have an age adjusted testosterone level. My doctor told me my testosterone level is higher than almost all men. I like it that way.

The Twit, I'll add that the health problems associated with ED drugs and testosterone are almost entirely due to improper management of the protocol. When properly administered and monitored I'm quite certain that they are safer than most of the drugs you see advertised on TV. What could be safer than adding back to your body in the case of testosterone, a chemical that is identicle to what is naturally produced by the body. Testosterone is simpler and safer than any prescription drug because it isn't a drug at all. In my view it shouldn't even be a controlled substance.
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Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby The Twit » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:02 am

BE64: I know that the sex would be great for the man but I am asking from the concept of the couple. Yes the man may want sex and better sex but if the wife does not want more sex for various reasons then what other reasons for getting and maintaining improved T levels? In other words if the increased T level is just for sex and sex is not happening regularly or at all then why bother?

To use the car analogy. I have my old convertible rebuilt, either by me or an expert, to its original condition. I put in it good grade oil and the best gas I find. I enjoy taking it out for drives every Sunday afternoon like my wife and I used to do when we were young. We both enjoyed putting the roof down and letting the engine roar. However my wife complains of the cost of the repairs, the oil, the gas, and other things I have done to make the ride fun and enjoyable again. She does not enjoy the ride as much as I do. Thus as time goes on I am not enjoying the ride because the one person I was trying to please with the renewed ride is not having the same fun we had in our youth. She is more worried about other things and cannot or will not enjoy the ride. You then settle with no Sunday afternoon rides or if you do it is in a sensible, cheap, fuel efficient car.

So back to the basic question beyond sex what are the health benefits of higher T levels? What can be done with little to no increased financial costs? What can be done naturally without having to use the medical system that is already against increasing T in men because they do not see any other reason to have T increased other than sex?


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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby Hoosier52 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:17 am

TRT does help your sex life. Like Be64 said, it's better than ever (Been married over 40 years). But, putting that aside, the health benefits are also substantial - heart health, bone health, etc. Also the mental benefits - little or no brain fog and improved moods.

The blood work I'm having done for TRT also showed some other deficiencies (DHEA, Pregnenolone, high E2) for which I am now being treated. I'm still getting dialed in, but I do feel better than before TRT.

As for your wife, we also had that same issue. I had my DW watch "The Sex-Starved Marriage" by Michelle Weiner-Davis. She explains exactly how men feel when the wife has little or no interest in sex. It's a "Ted Talk" and you can find it on YouTube. That video changed my wife's thinking. My wife has also started TRT through Defy medical.

One issue I have with TRT right now is rising PSA. I think it's BPH, but Dr. Saya will make me stop and see a urologist if it continues to rise. My hematocrit is also borderline but I live at high altitude and that's a factor. Other than that, I'm glad that I started TRT and the cost is minimal when you consider all the positive benefits.

Another big plus for me was finding Defy Medical and competent treatment. What a HUGE relief because I knew that I was being treated by one of the best in the country, not some uninformed "doctor."

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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby be64 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:34 am

Rising PSA would have me concerned. Five years of TRT has not increased my PSA. I've had a couple of upward blips which returned to normal that were attributed to prostatitis. I have mild BPH but that hasn't seemed to do much to my PSA either. My PSA has always been in the range of .4 to .9 except for the aforementioned blips. It has been .7 for the past several years.
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Re: Boosting Testosterone naturally, benefits of T

Postby be64 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:38 pm

As a follow-up on my previous comment on insurance, I talked to my doctor at taekwondo class (we both do taekwondo) and I asked if insurance companies require testosterone test results before they will cover it. He said that some do and some don't.
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